Haha I wondered how they would try to stop Mamdani becoming mayor.
And after Mamdani hired one of the DNC’s consultants to
nerf all his policiesappeal to the centrists who have thus far refused to endorse him.It’s almost as though the centrist wing of the party does absolutely nothing in good faith and will do everything they can to ratfuck anyone to their left.
What an absolute chode
Don’t you mean taint?
Gooch.
asshole
Remember kids: Vote blue no matter who only applies to progressives.
Want to run a campaign against the duly nominated candidate?
Only if you’re a neoliberal sex pest. Otherwise you want republicans to win.
You think the DNC is pushing this? Or is this just throwing shit to throw shit?
Vote blue still applies here. I don’t know who told you it doesn’t.
You think the DNC is pushing this?
I think they’re going to be more open about doing so as the election approaches.
Vote blue still applies here.
Progressives step aside when centrists win the primaries that the party went to court for the right to rig.
the party went to court for the right to rig.
Not a fair interpretation of an argument made by a single DNC lawyer in a single context. Also, the primary is over and Mamdani won.
Not a fair interpretation of an argument made by a single DNC lawyer in a single context.
A completely accurate representation, made by a lawyer representing the party and setting precedent they have taken advantage of ever since.
Also, the primary is over and Mamdani won.
I’m not sorry that the party’s machinations against the left fail sometimes.
It’s accurate that their lawyer made that true argument. That’s just how party primaries work in the US, unfortunately. It’s not accurate that “the party went to court for the right to rig”. The whole point of the argument was to avoid a potentially long and expensive case from moving forward. The context matters, and the lawyer would have been incompetent not to bring it up, as would a Republican or even Green party lawyer in that situation.
That’s an overly charitable interpretation.
What actually happened was that progressives sued the DNC for unfairly rigging the primaries, which they did.
Rather than try to deny it, they went with the tactic of saying “well we’re allowed to because we own the process, not the voters”.
This in spite of their own charter mandating that they stay neutral and not favor any candidate over others during the primary process.
I don’t think the word “rigging” tells an accurate story. I do think they pulled strings to get all the establishment candidates to Voltron into Biden for super Tuesday. I do think they influenced their cohorts in the media to make Bernie look like he couldn’t win the general. I don’t believe they messed with the voting process itself, which is what “rigging” tends to invoke.
Rather than try to deny it, they went with the tactic of saying
Again, context matters. In a legal process there are different times to make different arguments, and a good lawyer makes use every argument available. This particular argument dealt with whether or not the court had jurisdiction in the matter, so it came early in the process.
This in spite of their own charter mandating that they stay neutral
What exactly does that mean? Is every member required to be personally neutral in even their personal relationships outside the DNC? Does that extend to Obama who is neither a board member or on staff at the DNC? Being neutral is a good idea, but that rule is pretty meaningless.
To be clear, I am no apologist for the Democratic establishment. I blame them more for Trump than the Republicans. That’s why I want progressives to show up and vote them out in primaries. Giving the false impression that their vote won’t count is counterproductive.
God damn, you’re hyperfixating on one part of my initial comment because you don’t like people remembering how awful your wing of the party constantly is to anyone but netanyahu and two cheneys.
You have no fucking idea what wing of the party I belong to.
“Vote Blue No Matter Who!!”
Funny how that is only a thing when they’re running a “practically a Republican” ‘Democrat’ and not when someone who’s actually a leftist starts getting some approval.
Blue no matter who is a stupid idea and now it is obvious thank goodness
It’s suddenly a stupid idea because a progressive won the primary. How convenient.
DNC normally: “3rd parties don’t function in our two party system, there’s no point in voting for them”
DNC after losing their own primary: 3rd party it is
“Vote Blue No Matter Who” reverts to “Party Unity My Ass” as soon as centrists don’t get 100% of everything they want.
These “” seem to have fallen from around the word centrists
They have not.
They’re not centrists as much as they want to believe they are. They are firmly conservative.
Conservative and centrist are functionally synonyms at this point.
A 3rd party won’t be viable in our lifetimes.
Welcome to reality.
DNC normally "3rd parties don’t function in our two party system, there’s no point in voting for them
That part is just reality.
That’s why they sued to keep De La Cruz off the ballot in swing states.
It’s almost like mayoral politics in one of the most populous cities on the planet is somewhat different than state and federal level politics.
Who knew
Now we’re taking about Democrats and the DNC.
No, we are talking about both. Go re-read the thread for context.
The original comment was comparing the DNC’s behavior at the national level, with a mayoral primary with ranked choice voting in one of the bluest cities in the US.
I’m saying it’s not even close to a 1:1 comparison
Reality created and enforced by those two parties, especially the DNC.
The DNC would rather have a MAGA win it than Zohran.
Won’t work. Democrats are like any other voting group: they stick with their party, no matter the majority candidate. Because losing to the enemy is worse than losing to an infra-party faction. This is how Trump got elected twice. It’ll happen again, because people are predictable.
He’s just hoping that enough people vote for him that it’ll split the vote and that Adams will win. They’re liberals, they’d rather literal fascists win than leftists.
No, I’m not that pessimistic. Their allegiance is to party loyalty, not an opposing political viewpoint like facism. The guy’s a true believer, and his intent isn’t to sabotage to Democratic Party but to reform it. I don’t agree with all of his positions, but I like him better than Cuomo right now. The real issue is that Cuomo isn’t a right-wing Nazi like the Far-Left want you to believe. Maintain your centricity and don’t get played into viewing things the way the media outlets and political parties want you to see them.
The real issue is that Cuomo isn’t a right-wing Nazi
He’s trying to split the vote as a spoiler candidate to allow the NAZI party win. Which makes him a NAZI collaborator.
No, he’s trying to win for his own ambition of power. Calling him a Nazi collaborator for that is idiotic. Just because what he’s doing helps Nazis doesn’t make him a collaborator. Grow the fuck up.
Sure is neat how voting third party suddenly isn’t collaboration.
Sure is neat how your argument has no relevance.
Anyone with the slightest criticism of biden or harris last year was called a trump supporter.
Oh. So you mean they will vote for the democrat candidate Mamdani…… right? Right?
Yes, or just not vote at all.
And just like that, not voting became acceptable. Sure is neat what having a progressive nominee will do.
Progressives vote more as a voting block than conservatives do. Oh, were you hoping that would be a sick burn?
And you’re advocating for not voting because a progressive won the nomination.
What gave you the impression I was advocating for not voting? I said I expected some Democrats to not vote, not that I supported it.
Well, that was the assumption every time progressives warned centrists that people would stay home if the administration didn’t abandon their unconditional arms sales that everyone knew were being used for genocide.
You’re expecting greater benefit of the doubt than the anti-genocide left got from centrists. None is forthcoming. You were advocating against voting because you want sliwa to win.
I still don’t understand how this is supposed to work even in principle. Clearly the sort of people who voted in the primary prefer Mamdani by a wide margin. Is Cuomo expecting to be elected by people who didn’t care enough to vote in the primary but do care enough to vote for him despite the fact that he’s not the Democratic candidate? Does he think that there are more people like that than there are people who voted for him in the primary but will vote for Mamdani in the general election?
Clearly the sort of people who voted in the primary prefer Mamdani by a wide margin.
Yes, but party leadership prefers the sex pest cuomo or the corrupt adams or even the dipshit fascist sliwa to any progressive.
To be fair: The Democratic Party isn’t a viable political engine for positive social change or a working-class agenda. If Cuomo wins it will be yet another example of how untrustworthy, hypocritical, and vapid Blue No Matter Who voting habits are.
Remember when mods coordinated to ban any criticism of BNMW / Blue Maga from all the major subs during 2024? How they the cultivated a community of briggading, sea-lioning, etc… to try and suppress any criticism of an approach to politics that was obviously going to hand the country to Trump?
.
My ass. I wish the mods had banned obviously disingenuous “let’s let Trump win to make a point, what’s the difference anyway” made-up critique that blamed Kamala Harris for Gaza and inflation, under a tissue-thin pretense of “I just care about the country sooooooooooooooooooooo much that I’m giving well informed constructive criticism.” Instead we had to just yell at y’all about it in the comments, which since there were hundreds of posts and comments every single day with that viewpoint was always a losing battle. Even trolling of crayon-quality transparency of the UniversalMonk variety was explicitly allowed by the mods, and people who objected to it too strongly got banned for it.
The whining about how you’re not allowed to get your message out, which is constantly broadcasted on every channel where you’re claiming you’re being silenced, is just part and parcel of the alternate reality you’re having a good bit of success in constructing. MAGA does it too, it’s part of the package.
You do understand that your cynical lying about the past is why your camp is losing the argument? I mean, I don’t dislike you, at least not personally, and and even if I have to drag you by the hair onto the right side of history, I’ll at least afford you the charity required for you to fix yourself.
There is no point in bothering with conjecture regarding the bans. They happened, its documented, any one can look it up. It doesn’t help your following arguments to simply lie about a reality people can easily go reference for themselves, if they didn’t live the experience themselves, as many of us have. A conjecture rooted in the same cynicism that cost us the election.
Now as before, your cynical misrepresentation of the arguments which were made also works against you. We argued that without replacing Biden, we’d lose the election. And we had the same claims you are levying, here, now, levied against us them. That we were secret Trump supporters. That we were the ones costing the Democrats the election. And then, as it does, the truth of the matter has a way of finding itself out. And we who stayed focus on an accurate and valid criticisms we’re proven right. In-spite of this, and this is the true cost of cynicism, you continued to reject the analysis and criticism of those who got it right. Instead of showing grace and changing, yours doubled down on your wrongness, when even the beltway insiders had the humility to recognize how wrong they’d been. No. No instead you embraced the worst instinct: to double down on the cynicism. Harris needed to pivot away from Biden’s policies and political techniques to come back in the extra innings she was afforded. But no. The cynics won the side-line arguments on how to handle the extra time we got on the clock (and let us not forget, these same cynics were the ones arguing against replacing Biden), and we all suffer because.
We should listen to the people who got it right, to begin with, and who stayed right the whole time. We should ignore those who are guided by cynicism and fear. Sacrificing your values for billionaire donations isn’t just morally abhorrent: Its also bad strategy.
There is no point in bothering with conjecture regarding the bans. They happened, its documented, any one can look it up.
Can you look them up, and show them to me? I came close to digging through the modlog myself, to prove that the number of times in Dec 2023 / Jan 2024 that someone was banned for posting a poll showing Biden behind was 0.
We argued that without replacing Biden, we’d lose the election.
I said that with replacing Biden, we’d lose the election, because the exact same arguments that applied to Biden would get applied to Harris, plus some new ones, and all the forces that marshaled a variety of bad-faith bullshit against Biden would start to do the same against Harris, and people in this country literally can’t tell up from down when it comes to the election. And, in the election, that’s what happened.
A lot of what you’re saying happened also, yes. I’m genuinely confused about how you’re accusing me of being cynical about it or telling the Democrats to be more right wing. What statements did I make that led you to think that?
Can you look them up, and show them to me? I came close to digging through the modlog myself, to prove that the number of times in Dec 2023 / Jan 2024 that someone was banned for posting a poll showing Biden behind was 0.
Yes and no. Yes I can, in that I’ve built out at least some of the tools to do so. I can’t in that I’m still at work today and haven’t returned to that project in quite a while.
So anyone can look it up, but in order to look it up, you’d have to build some tools and it’s a whole project?
Find a particular modlog entry from last year. See how long it takes.
Yes, and they’ve apparently decided to abandon this community in order to wall themselves off from we BoTh SiDeS-ers.
I mean, they lost. And more than just the election. They lost the battle for ideological control of how to do politics; of how to win elections, which was always the premise that justified their reason for being: Their loss is existential.
The core of their argument was that their cynicism was required to win elections. That we had to sacrifice our values, for whatever reason, to be able to “win” the election. To reiterate what our criticisms. Originally, it was with Biden. That without a serious pivot on Gaza and to right wing “enlightened centrism” that had guided his path to that point, he would lose the election. The later criticism was with Harris, and basically identical: That without pivoting and focusing on the issues the base was concerned with, that she would lose the election.
@Phillip_The_Bucket is demonstrating the same cynicism in this thread that lost the election for all of us in his fraudulent interpretation of our critique. The argument wasn’t that Biden or Harris should lose. We we’re point out that they were losing, and at least some of us where arguing what they needed to do to win. If you were to point out the obvious fact that Biden was polling, somehow below DJT, in Dec 2023/Jan 2024, you would get down voted all to hell, if not outright banned. You would get called a bot. Or an NPC. Or an russian operative. Or any other number of slurs. I presented a scientific analysis showing that it was statistically impossible for Biden to turn things around in March of 2024. It was removed as misinformation and I received a ban for it. This isn’t conjecture. Its all documented. Ask @Return2Ozma some of the names they’ve been called and insults they’ve had to suffer for simply posting articles that actually reflect reality.
They were wrong to begin with, insisted on staying committed to something that they knew was both a moral and tactical disaster, they were wrong after Biden dropped out, they were wrong up until the day of the election, and they’ve been wrong since. Alternatively, the exact same critiques we’ve been levying for years now have become the mainstream interpretation of past events. And now, with Mandami’s victory we’re showing something even more powerful. That there is real power in doing the right thing and speaking ones truth. And thats simply not possible for those whose politics is based on the false validation cynicism offers.
What i ask myself in all of this is, whether the “sacrifice” of values wasn’t genuine. Because if they are willing to compromise on genocide and ethnic cleansing, the question is how much of these values were there to begin with.
And subsequently, if they are somehow “okay” with brown people being mass murdered abroad, how should anyone including these people themselves believe that they would do anything substantial to human rights violations at home. And lo and behold they do very little about it.
Because if they are willing to compromise on genocide and ethnic cleansing
Oh they’re not. They remain steadfast in their support for both.
These fuckers are so obsessed with power and pushing their “vision” that they refuse to let go, step aside,or support the younger generations coming up that ha e a very different view on the world and how it should be. Get these geriatric fucks out of office and let’s move into the 21st century.
They’re preventing the change that’s actually going to allow the left win elections again. It’s pretty obvious that the Democratic Tea Party moment is starting. Who’s knows what this will be called years from now, but it’s starting. They learned nothing from what the party did to Bernie Sanders.
He knows he can’t win. He can only split the vote, and he’s gonna do it anyway.
They learned nothing from what the party did to Bernie Sanders.
They learned that they’re ok with losing to republicans as long as progressives are shut out.
All these years later and he still doesn’t understand that no means no.
No one’s said it, yet, but this is the best comment on this entire post.
Amazing. Chef’s kiss.