No, we were in highschool when we begun to date. But I was already Christian, and we knew I was going to a faculty of theology a few months later to become a pastor.
I’m a member of a united Lutheran-Reformed church. I come from a Reformed parish, but serve nowadays in a Lutheran one, and theologically I navigate between the two traditions.
No. I don’t believe in all that “you have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hell” crap. It’s in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn’t recognize him is not a loving God, it’s a pervert. I believe that “to confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviour” is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don’t expect an eternal reward for that.
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
I’d say she’s agnostic atheist. She doesn’t know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn’t care.
I don’t know. The Bible don’t speak that much after the afterlife. Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly (Luke 17:21), the Old Testament is almost only interested in how to follow God here and now, even the book of Revelation is, if read correctly, more a veiled criticism of the politics of Roman Empire than a prediction. The only one who spoke a lot about the afterlife is Paul, but if he’s clear about who will be saved, he’s not about who won’t. That’s why I spoke about a mystery; but I trust God to make the best decision.
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 2:12-16
For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:22-25
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I looked to first link, and the first biblical reference was Luke 16:23. It’s a parable… not a description of actual hell… I saw enough to know that it’s not theologically serious.
The rest of your message is cherrypicking. You can’t cite verses without providing any context or analysis, staying on the surface of things, and think you make a point. Again, not theologically serious. You should study the Bible praying, make it resonate with the life of the marginalized people that Jesus came to meet, not just choosing the verses that confirm your preconceptions, or you’ll make the Bible saying the contrary of what it says by cherrypicking and staying too literal. Nobody can make this work for you.
Imagine someone who’d come to you and say: “the Bible say that God doesn’t exist, look at Ps 14:1 ‘There is no God’!”. Of course this Psalm says the contrary, and it would be easy to prove, just by citing the verse wholly; but what you do is not different, just more subtle.
I don’t deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn’t sit around and say “you do you, live your truth”. He said “take up your cross, and follow Me”.
In many christian traditions the “confess Jesus as savior” can also be done after this life when standing before Jesus, basically at the gates of heaven. At that point it’s really just a formality, and doing that right now instead of in the next life is exactly what you describe what it means to you: a way to live a better life right now.
How did the marriage ceremony go, who officiated the marriage, was it a religious leader or another type of official. I am really curious because I want my Christian GF to have the wedding of her dreams and I am not sure how to approach the topic. I have no issues but I am scared a pastor or similar might have because I am atheist
I live in France, where it’s illegal to have a religious marriage without having a civil one first. As a pastor, I have to ask a proof that the people I religiously marries are already married civilly. I agree theologically with that, as protestants don’t marry people, they bless an already existing marriage.
So we had both. To be honest, in France, civil marriages are quite dull: it takes 5 minutes, the mayor or their deputy reads the law, asks for consent, makes the people sign, and it’s the next couple’s turn. It’s very administrative. There’s a little decorum, but just a little.
So, even for people without strong belief, the ritual makes the marriage something special. It was the case for my spouse, at least. She’s atheist, but she respects my faith, as I respect her atheism; she knew it was important for me, so that made it important for her.
I would warn you though: if your girlfriend is Catholic, you’ll have yo promise to raise your children in the Catholic faith. If your girlfriend is evangelical, they may ask you to testify of your faith. I’d say to discuss this with her first very openly, and test the waters with her priest/pastor. 90% are cool people, with whom you’ll be able to be open, and they won’t refuse you as long as they don’t sense that you opposes the whole thing. 10% are assholes; I’d advice you to look for an other one; if it’s the one your girlfriend wants, lie to them (as long as your girlfriend agrees with that). You don’t marry for the officiant, you owe them nothing.
I’m a Christian pastor happily married to an atheist, AMA.
Were you a Christian before you married her? Were you a pastor at that point?
Also, what denomination/church do you belong to
No, we were in highschool when we begun to date. But I was already Christian, and we knew I was going to a faculty of theology a few months later to become a pastor.
I’m a member of a united Lutheran-Reformed church. I come from a Reformed parish, but serve nowadays in a Lutheran one, and theologically I navigate between the two traditions.
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
No. I don’t believe in all that “you have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hell” crap. It’s in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn’t recognize him is not a loving God, it’s a pervert. I believe that “to confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviour” is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don’t expect an eternal reward for that.
I’d say she’s agnostic atheist. She doesn’t know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn’t care.
But if someone is an atheist and doesn’t want anything to do with God, won’t God respect their decision?
I don’t know. The Bible don’t speak that much after the afterlife. Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly (Luke 17:21), the Old Testament is almost only interested in how to follow God here and now, even the book of Revelation is, if read correctly, more a veiled criticism of the politics of Roman Empire than a prediction. The only one who spoke a lot about the afterlife is Paul, but if he’s clear about who will be saved, he’s not about who won’t. That’s why I spoke about a mystery; but I trust God to make the best decision.
Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. And more about hell than anyone else in the Bible.
Paul is quite clear.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Romans 2:12-16
Romans 3:22-25
Romans 6:23
I looked to first link, and the first biblical reference was Luke 16:23. It’s a parable… not a description of actual hell… I saw enough to know that it’s not theologically serious.
The rest of your message is cherrypicking. You can’t cite verses without providing any context or analysis, staying on the surface of things, and think you make a point. Again, not theologically serious. You should study the Bible praying, make it resonate with the life of the marginalized people that Jesus came to meet, not just choosing the verses that confirm your preconceptions, or you’ll make the Bible saying the contrary of what it says by cherrypicking and staying too literal. Nobody can make this work for you.
Imagine someone who’d come to you and say: “the Bible say that God doesn’t exist, look at Ps 14:1 ‘There is no God’!”. Of course this Psalm says the contrary, and it would be easy to prove, just by citing the verse wholly; but what you do is not different, just more subtle.
I don’t deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn’t sit around and say “you do you, live your truth”. He said “take up your cross, and follow Me”.
What are you doing, citing verses without understanding them in their context, if not “living your truth”?
In many christian traditions the “confess Jesus as savior” can also be done after this life when standing before Jesus, basically at the gates of heaven. At that point it’s really just a formality, and doing that right now instead of in the next life is exactly what you describe what it means to you: a way to live a better life right now.
You sound like a very good person.
I think you get what I believe religion is supposed to be about.
And that’s nice to see :) keep it up!
And to follow up, are you okay with that? If not, do you try to convince her to believe to save her? How does she feel about those efforts or lack of?
Were you both Christian and your partner fell out of it?
No, she never was Christian, nor anything else for that matter.
How did the marriage ceremony go, who officiated the marriage, was it a religious leader or another type of official. I am really curious because I want my Christian GF to have the wedding of her dreams and I am not sure how to approach the topic. I have no issues but I am scared a pastor or similar might have because I am atheist
I live in France, where it’s illegal to have a religious marriage without having a civil one first. As a pastor, I have to ask a proof that the people I religiously marries are already married civilly. I agree theologically with that, as protestants don’t marry people, they bless an already existing marriage.
So we had both. To be honest, in France, civil marriages are quite dull: it takes 5 minutes, the mayor or their deputy reads the law, asks for consent, makes the people sign, and it’s the next couple’s turn. It’s very administrative. There’s a little decorum, but just a little.
So, even for people without strong belief, the ritual makes the marriage something special. It was the case for my spouse, at least. She’s atheist, but she respects my faith, as I respect her atheism; she knew it was important for me, so that made it important for her.
I would warn you though: if your girlfriend is Catholic, you’ll have yo promise to raise your children in the Catholic faith. If your girlfriend is evangelical, they may ask you to testify of your faith. I’d say to discuss this with her first very openly, and test the waters with her priest/pastor. 90% are cool people, with whom you’ll be able to be open, and they won’t refuse you as long as they don’t sense that you opposes the whole thing. 10% are assholes; I’d advice you to look for an other one; if it’s the one your girlfriend wants, lie to them (as long as your girlfriend agrees with that). You don’t marry for the officiant, you owe them nothing.
I’ve seen a pastor hold a nice opening without any direct religious references
That I could do, if it made sense in the context.