Personally, I’m an atheist (anti-theist to be more precise), but I’ll say that in my experience catholic christians tend to be less culty than protestant christians. Probably has something to do with the part that catholics believe that they actually have to be good vs protestants believing that simply believing is all you need.
Isn’t there someone you forgot to ask? [Motions towards where the divine should be]
I had the misfortune of needing to attend a “Christian” university for a short while due to visa reasons in the US, the vomit inducing cult speak they do at every opprtunity at a institute that’s about education and science was appalling, imagine the kids who have to grow up in such an environment, no wonder the country is so fucked up right now
Religious leaders there openly brag about having gold shoes and private jets…
Christians are indoctrinated from childhood to obey any authority that speaks the way their pastor does, and to ignore the evidence of their eyes and ears to believe what they are told.
So it’s always awkward interacting with Christians, i can correct some of their shitty behavior by explaining how it would hurt them, but the conversation that their core beleifs are a control mechanism abused by conmen is impossible to broach.
It makes me sad because religion is so important to so many people, but it wouldn’t be if they weren’t indoctrinated against their will as children.
Just venting…
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
“What do you mean? He watches me from the corner every time I’m masturbating.”
Maintain eye contact and reply “Same to you.”
Most people I know are christian. Religion becomes a bit like politics. I don’t get into it unless the other person does. Usually folks that do tend to be the annoying types but some surprise you (ie can discuss religion and get that people believe other things and thats ok. not just athiests but other religions and such). Many “pray for you”.
I grew up Christian in a place where most people were atheist, went to a Christian school, where about half the students were Christian and the other was atheist, then moved to different places all over. My experience through all of that was always: Regular people in either group mostly don’t give a shit and just want to live their own lives. The “Christians” you see on TV are not normal people.
One of my best friends is christian and I didn’t even know for years because it wasn’t relevant and they are a reasonable person.
I grew up agnostic/atheist in the Bible Belt. There was a lot of casual discrimination, ostracism, and judgement if you weren’t Christian. Even among different churches. I’d have loved for there have been more Christians like you, but unfortunately the TV/Fox News Christians are all over the place down there.
I’ve never been to the US, but from what I’ve heard, I don’t doubt for a second that the climate is a bit more aggressive over there.
Yea. Those types don’t just exist on TV, they are everyday people in our communities for some of us. To just say they aren’t “normal” erases the lived experiences of those who live where these mentalities are still very much the norm for that locality.
How does saying that such hostile treatment is abnormal “erase” anyone’s lived experiences?
If you tell someone who lived only eating one meal a day during elementary school that they did not have a normal childhood, you are directly commenting ON their “lived experience”, not erasing it.
You seem to be conflating “that’s not normal” with “that never happens”, which is not reasonable.
"Which one?“
I’m a Christian pastor happily married to an atheist, AMA.
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
No. I don’t believe in all that “you have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hell” crap. It’s in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn’t recognize him is not a loving God, it’s a pervert. I believe that “to confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviour” is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don’t expect an eternal reward for that.
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
I’d say she’s agnostic atheist. She doesn’t know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn’t care.
In many christian traditions the “confess Jesus as savior” can also be done after this life when standing before Jesus, basically at the gates of heaven. At that point it’s really just a formality, and doing that right now instead of in the next life is exactly what you describe what it means to you: a way to live a better life right now.
You sound like a very good person.
I think you get what I believe religion is supposed to be about.
And that’s nice to see :) keep it up!
And to follow up, are you okay with that? If not, do you try to convince her to believe to save her? How does she feel about those efforts or lack of?
Were you both Christian and your partner fell out of it?
No, she never was Christian, nor anything else for that matter.
How did the marriage ceremony go, who officiated the marriage, was it a religious leader or another type of official. I am really curious because I want my Christian GF to have the wedding of her dreams and I am not sure how to approach the topic. I have no issues but I am scared a pastor or similar might have because I am atheist
I live in France, where it’s illegal to have a religious marriage without having a civil one first. As a pastor, I have to ask a proof that the people I religiously marries are already married civilly. I agree theologically with that, as protestants don’t marry people, they bless an already existing marriage.
So we had both. To be honest, in France, civil marriages are quite dull: it takes 5 minutes, the mayor or their deputy reads the law, asks for consent, makes the people sign, and it’s the next couple’s turn. It’s very administrative. There’s a little decorum, but just a little.
So, even for people without strong belief, the ritual makes the marriage something special. It was the case for my spouse, at least. She’s atheist, but she respects my faith, as I respect her atheism; she knew it was important for me, so that made it important for her.
I would warn you though: if your girlfriend is Catholic, you’ll have yo promise to raise your children in the Catholic faith. If your girlfriend is evangelical, they may ask you to testify of your faith. I’d say to discuss this with her first very openly, and test the waters with her priest/pastor. 90% are cool people, with whom you’ll be able to be open, and they won’t refuse you as long as they don’t sense that you opposes the whole thing. 10% are assholes; I’d advice you to look for an other one; if it’s the one your girlfriend wants, lie to them (as long as your girlfriend agrees with that). You don’t marry for the officiant, you owe them nothing.
I’ve seen a pastor hold a nice opening without any direct religious references
That I could do, if it made sense in the context.
A Christian girl once told me that she couldn’t date me because I was a non believer. I could tell it hurt her to say it, but it seemed like genuine conviction.
It’s a shame, because she was lovely.
Bullet dodged.
Sad when people let superstitions prevent them from living the life they want.
In my experience the Christians don’t really shove it down your throat. They will invite you to their church and are open to have a philosophical discussion about the existence of god and the outcomes of that. The ones I’ve met are very respectful about it.
Its another religion that also believes in Jesus (but not as god himself) that are very aggressive about enforcing it upon you.
As often, the loud minority gives a bad name to the others. People meet a lot of respectful Christians, but doesn’t even know they’re Christians, as they don’t shove it in anyone’s throat. They meet a few vocal Christians, and know they’re Christians, and then think they’re the only ones.
My experience is the opposite, it’s always Christians bringing it up, often by judging others’ actions out loud.
Never had any of the other Abrahamitic denominations try to convert me, although I was approached by a Hare Krishna recruiter once.
They are no more judge than other system of belief imo. I’ve always found they are respectful about it tho.
I was referring to a specific Abrahamic denomination. The one that had their profit marrying a 9 year old.
Your description was clear, our experiences seem to differ.
In case you’re worried we have different frames of reference: The way you’re trying to implicate Islam in denigrating terms is not respectful. In analogous phrasing, the Christian denominations are based around glorifying human sacrifice.
Regular churchgoers are a mixed bag. The real trouble comes from religious institutions themselves.
It’s almost as if no group is a monolith and people who like to abuse power seek positions of power regardless of the structure they are in
Yes well I’m also an anarchist so, yeah not really stumped by that one
I have no experience with real-life atheists, but internet atheists do be like that.
Yes, you do, they just don’t tell you because why would they talk about something they either have zero interest it, or a past where they believed but then figured out it wasn’t believable anymore for them?
As an internet and real-life atheist …yeah. Most atheists just don’t talk much about their non-belief, because there isn’t much to talk about, so in dedicated atheism communities, you mostly see those that are almost anti-theist…
Most people are probably agnostic anyway
The distinction is just semantics in my mind, too, yeah. I hold the same position as agnostics, in that I do not believe this whole god concept can be disproven, because it is not rigorously formulated like a scientific thesis.
But I put that as “I do not believe that there is a god” and respectively I call myself an atheist, because well, there’s many other things which cannot be disproven, like for example Big Foot.
And if a kid were to ask me, whether Big Foot exists, I’m not going to lead with “we really can’t know”. That’s just misleading.
I guess, agnostics differentiate between gods and Big Foot, because there’s so many more people who are convinced of these gods’ existence. But yeah, I don’t do that either, because I’ve seen how many people are willing to believe climate change isn’t real. Lots of people believing something is just not an argument to me anymore.
_hyah_🤺
My experience as an atheist has been me holding a shield with them having a sword. I don’t really have any interest in talking about God with anyone.
My experience has been the exact opposite!
I suspect it’s a cultural thing, though. I’m British, but I know America has a very aggressive evangelical base. There are mega-churches and politicians and sports people are always talking about God and Jesus and we just don’t have that over here.
On the other hand, a few atheists I know have tried to “convert” me before.
I’m guessing it’s a certainty thing. From what I’ve seen of the American churches, some of them are absolutely borderline cults. So of course the folk are certain that they’re right.
And there’s certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they’re right.
I do live in the Bible belt.
What did the atheists try to “convert” you to?
Hmm. I’m going to go ahead and assume this is a bad-faith comment. Despite that, I’ll try to help.
I’m guessing from the phrasing that you’re not aware, but if you’re trying to change someone’s belief system, it’s called conversion.
I appreciate that you were probably trying to do the “atheism isn’t a belief, it’s a lack of a belief” thing, but unfortunately that’s how the language works in this case.
Nice deflection, bro. But my point was exactly that. You cannot “convert” someone to atheism. That would imply atheism is a belief, rather than the lack thereof. So my question stands.
Nope. They’re right. Conversation has a destination. Pointing out the flaws in YOUR beliefs isn’t telling you where to end up, only where to leave from.
That’s just deprogramming.
I get what you’re saying, but you’re wrong. I’ve used the word correctly. Genuinely, look it up.
You did not. Notice how every example has a direction associated with it
con·ver·sion kən-ˈvər-zhən -shən Synonyms of conversion 1: the act of converting : the process of being converted
2: an experience associated with the definite and decisive adoption of a religion
3a: the operation of finding a converse in logic or mathematics
b: reduction of a mathematical expression by clearing of fractions
4: a successful attempt for a point or points especially after a touchdown or for a first down
5: something converted from one use to another
6: gene conversion
Examples of conversion in a Sentence
The company is undergoing a **conversion to ** a new computer system.
They have suggested conversion of the old school into apartments.
Conversion to gas heating will continue over the next few years.
a conversion from Catholicism to Judaism
He is thinking about conversion to Buddhism.
OK, let’s go through the motions.
“Conversion to atheism”
Ah, but atheism isn’t a belief system, it’s the absence of one.
Yes I know, I’m not asserting that atheism is a belief system or a religion or anything like that
But you used the word conversion, as if it was a religion
Yes because you’re trying to change my beliefs and win me over to your way of thinking. Conversion is the correct word.
But atheism is the default human position, so you can’t convert to it
Humans are social creatures. World views, philosophies and beliefs are cultural, not biological. Atheism is no more the default position than English is the default language. Whatever you start off with, that’s your default position.
I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth here, and I hope I haven’t put up a strawman argument, but like I said - conversion really is the correct word.
I realise I mightn’t have won you over, and that’s fine, but this is a mad thing to get hung up on.
BTW, I do appreciate you doing the legwork and actually digging out the definition.
Someone brought up religion, or god. Is it the athiests?
I will absolutely push back if something brings up religion.
It would be silly if a Christian tried to convert you, an already converted Christian. Maybe there’s some confirmation bias at work?
It always starts from the assumption that I’m an atheist too. They’re all friends, by the way, so don’t picture some kind of weird high-pressure pitches on the street.
Also I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to conflate being atheist and being anti-religious - my friend in this story however is in the “religion is ultimately the cause of every war in history” camp.
Anyway, very basically, I’d done something nice. Another work friend was talking about it, and my anti-religion friend responded with “see, he’s an objectively nice person, no religion needed or anything”. And it was at this point I revealed my secret identity, and the discussion began.
Just for balance, over my 44 years, I’ve also had a Scientology pitch, a Jehovah’s Witnesses pitch (old-school knocking on the door style), and an uncomfortably high-pressure pitch from what I’m sure was one of those churches set up to scam immigrants.
But outside of those, the main people who have tried to change me have been friends with strong anti-religious views.
I live in the US and in real life Ive had far more atheists be assholes about religion. That said, Christians are in power, so they likely dont feel the need to be so loud.
Right? I’ve gotten “Aren’t you worried about going to Hell?”
Just… no.
Obviously not
