Hi. I know the most privacy-oriented (and best-working) phone OS is GrapheneOS, but I was wondering about other, less well-known ones, such as VollaOS (modified Android), Sailfish OS or Ubuntu Touch. Are they private? Do they work? Can I run Android applications on them (VollaOS and SailfishOS) without too much effort? I like using Linux, but I rely on many Android apps, such as navigation, mobile banking, the Garmin app, and many others. Do you have any experience with these operating systems?
My only problem with Graphene is that it only works on Pixel phones, which means supporting Google.
Note that most mobile banking apps will not work without Google services installed, no matter what you use, so you give up privacy just by using those.
Try postmarketOS. You can run your Android apps in a Waydroid container.
I’m going to watch that conversation. I’m currently on Pixel and I’m considering Graphene among others, but the main thing that gets me worried are updates, especially security updates. RCS, banks, most of the apps - I can work around, 0d exploits I cant.
GrapheneOS is much better at updates than 90% of OEMs. They released Android 16 within a few weeks of Google’s release despite Google making a bunch of changes to deliberately make custom Android OS development harder (both with the AOSP in general and the pixel device trees). During that time period they also backported some of the security fixes from Android 16 to the current Android 15 QPR2 release. Unfortunately Google are still trying their best to fuck things up, they still haven’t published Android 16 QPR1 to the AOSP yet despite saying they’d do that on the 3rd September. So currently GrapheneOS is great for updates, and will continue to be for as long as Google allows. Also anything preventing GrapheneOS from updating in a timely manner would affect all custom Android OS’s
Edit:
They have also fixed a security flaw that Google themselves are yet to release a fix for (and this is probably not the first time that’s happened)
Check /e/OS by Murena. It’s closer to Volla IMHO because they sell the phone with the deGoogled Android. In fact I was initially going to buy from Volla because I wanted something deGoogled and European but I wasn’t sure it would be a good fit for me. I thought for 800€ it was too risky for me. Consequently I tried the way cheaper option (~360€) from France rather than Germany. To be fair it’s also a lower-end phone but like I said, less risky for me if it was not to work out.
If you already have a phone though that is compatible with GrapheneOS and want to tinker, it’s probably not for you. If you want to “just” buy a working phone with an OS that isn’t tied to Google services then it might be a good option.
I bought one few months ago (cf my post history, you can see what worked, what didn’t, and the countless arguments I had with people criticizing Murena and /e/OS) and basically I’m happy with it. It’s not perfect but for my use case, it’s a good compromise. The phone I picked does come with limitations (e.g. no eSIM) but I found work around (e.g. JMP adapter) and one of my biggest concern, namely mobile banking due to not using a Google Android, is no problem for now, it just worked.
Finally (as you can again see from my post history) I do have the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro. I ordered them since they were out because I’m quite eager about Linux phones. I use Linux every day, from my desktop, including for gaming in VR, to my handled (SteamDeck) to eInk to home servers … so why not on mobile yet? Unfortunately it’s still quite experimental (camera support, battery management, BT for music or podcast, etc) so it’s not up to my expectations yet.
I am trying to reduce my dependency on phones/android since years and try to use Linux (NixOS) for everything and I would say I’ve been quite successfully. The only application that is holding me back from abandoning phones entirely at this point is Signal, because it requires a primary device and only the official mobile apps are currently suited for this task. Flare looks promising, and the PR has already been merged, but it is not enabled by default due to other issues. For online banking, my bank supports SmartTAN that requires a scanner, but this allows me to do everything via a browser.
Problem is many Android apps require Google Services and none of these will have it. So things like banking apps, parking payment apps, RCS text messaging apps, and even dating apps these days are going to refuse to run. Grapheneos has the advantage of the Google services sandboxed to reduce the impact of having it if you understand the implications, as well as features keeping other apps from talking to each other like how Facebook was caught using their apps to identify you to your web browser to allow every site you visit to identify you that has Meta provided services, even in incognito mode or when you opt out of or block their or third-party cookies.
We don’t have on the market device which would sell witthout Google services by default just with aosp like linage .I wanna just phone with easy unlockable bootloader with aosp no google services(or If I wanna them install it in 3 clicks how it was implemented in the past for meizu phones and same way with 1 click install root ) and would not cost a lot (fairphone) I looked on aliexpress even there no such options they make phones but without opened bootloader
Why would a company sell such a device? Unless it’s a privacy company, they will prefer to bloat the device with spyware in order to continue making money by selling user data.
And how in the past companies was making money from producing phones in times of Nokia in 2008-2009 when there no good internet and no ability to spy on user
I talked about continuing to make money , after they sell the device. It’s usually just more profitable for a company to not respect their users.
Most companies, if not all, can probably sustain one time payments, but investors prefer growth.
I wonder whether mobile device manufacturers get a cut from Google’s spyware revenue.
Linux phones are as private as Linux, but AFAIK it’s VERY rough, like no MMS implementation rough. Waydroid exists, but your mileage may vary per any individual app as per it actually running.
Yes, but I think Sailfish OS and Ubuntu Touch are Linux-based systems with an Android layer (I don’t really know how it works, but it’s something like Linux with Android firmware?) so they would work better than the PinePhone. I am interested in people’s experiences, and I saw in a video that Android apps run pretty well on Sailfish OS.
I’m currently trying to switch to using my Sailfish Phone full time. Unfortunately the way I’m having to do this is by keeping my old android about to run WhatsApp (because I can’t get friends and family onto something that also runs on Sailfish, which is basically Matrix or nothing as far as I can tell). It’s not great tbh, but I really like the idea of Sailfish (or Ubuntu touch).
The Dalvik layer (which runs the Android sandbox) is ok, it runs some stuff but not everything and anything “security dependent”, forget it, so Banking and messaging won’t be supported, that being said the moment I find a bank that supports Sailfish, I will switch to that bank in an instant.
(Ps. If anyone has anything to refute any of my statements here, like a good messaging app or banking, then please correct me, I want to be wrong)
Can’t you get WhatsApp to work in Waydroid?
Honestly I haven’t tried, so that’s possibly on me. But also I don’t want it on there, who knows what that app does, it’s at best suspicious, imho. I have a “dirty” phone with all the big tech stuff on, but at a pinch I can make it go online using my “clean” phone as a tether, but I’m trying to wean off the data harvesting apps like WA, Instagram etc
which phone you got? is sailfish still xperia only?
List of linux phones OS: https://linmob.net/resources/#smartphones Sailfish os suported devices https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/
