I have no problem with people selling AI art, it’s just… Tell people that’s what you’re doing.
Finding cool images and printing them off to sell to people is a thing people do. Print services have been selling the same thing, more or less. They’re printing the images and that’s worth something.
But don’t lie to me about it. Be upfront about what’s going on, and let the buyer decide. Also, be aware of your surroundings. Don’t go to an art expo and try to sell AI slop. That’s just disrespectful. Maybe do it on a street corner or something idk. Set up a kiosk at the mall.
Context matters.
I mean, I wouldn’t pay for a print of AI slop, but I imagine there are people who see cool pictures and just want to pick them up… That’s not me, but I’m sure that’s someone.
They don’t want to disclose that’s AI art because people won’t buy it or at least not for the same price as art made by people. AI “artists” mislead for a reason.
I agree, and the picture in the original post is the outcome of that.
If they charge printing fees plus a modest markup, and disclose that it’s AI generated, they’d make fewer sales per hour and less money per sale, but they would be able to operate for more hours and likely go home with more money.
The math on this isn’t hard, but it requires thinking more long term/economically than I’ve ever seen from selfish/capitalistic people who would do this kind of thing.
There’s also the knee jerk reactions. There’s indie games that are being called AI slop.
Theres one game thats $1.50 but getting ripped because the dev admitted to using AI to create the cut scenes. That’s all it was.
it’s just… Tell people that’s what you’re doing.
and sell at the appropriate TEMU pricing.
Eh. They can try selling at whatever price they want. As long as they disclose its AI art then people should be able to make the evaluation for themselves. I’m not convinced selling at lower prices makes things any better. If anything that might backfire and people expect real artists to compete with the ai low prices.
They can generate thousands of slop in hours. So <$1 is fair.
Whatever the market will bear… I think is the phrase.
So is " a sucker is born every minute". Bored Ape Yacht Club is valued at $404M.
If someone is willing to pay that…
deleted by creator
Perhaps don’t call it “art” either since it’s just the result of one’s and zeros spewing out data… those people are not “artists” just talentless hacks…
I do so much art printing pages upon pages of /dev/urandom, please buy some. Computer made it artfully in art form.
It is sadly, not far removed from how a lot of photography works, especially now.
Take thousands of pictures, pick the few that look good. Even bad photographers get lucky often enough.
I’m not saying it’s the same, there are obvious differences. But it’s not a huge leap.
I’m sorry but that’s a really dumb take discrediting millions of photographers around the world.
Theres more to photography than taking thousand of pictures and just pick the one where you got lucky. Painters often also need many trys to get their art perfect.
You also have to go somewhere to take pictures. Then invest the time to find different angles of the subject. Then select the ones that you like best and edit them.
Theres a massive difference in taking a nice portrait of a real subject vs prompt “engineering” one in two minutes from your smartphone on the toilet.
Of course photography is much more accessible today, but so are most art forms nowadays.
I’m sorry I’ve worked with a dozen or so photographers. Some good, several very bad, and one or two who are genuinely talented.
They’re all shooting as much as they can and picking what they like. Editing is 90 percent of the job.
One gal literally had no idea what any of the functions on her camera even did, just let it do everything. She just had a good eye for it in the editing room, and shot enough to take luck out of the equation. She is still being shown in galleries around town and has a stall at all the craft fairs around town. Photography is the only thing she does. The few who were and remain talented photographers aren’t standing head and shoulders above their competition. The two really talented guys are teaching.
Brother, you’re not sounding very discerning here.
Just because some clown picked up a camera and started taking pictures, and representing themselves as a pro photographer, doesn’t mean shit.
There is still a skill and a science that professional photographers employ.
You surrounding yourself with hacks does not mean everyone who does photography is a hack, like are you that silly?
I can buy a basketball and then call myself a basketball player. It’s not a protected title. That doesn’t mean there’s no skill to basketball, and success in the game just means throwing the ball enough times and hoping probability takes over.
You don’t have to master all the functions of a camera to make art with it, just like noone expects a componist to play every instrument. Or a painter how to make his own colors. Of course it helps, but thats not part of what makes it art.
Also, if editing is 90 percent of the job, would you say thats not part of the art?
And why would the art be less valuable just because you took more pictures than you show? Does a musician publish every piece of melody they have ever created? Does an authornpublish every text?
Art is just something that makes you think, though, and jogs something inside of you. Hell, you could print this thread out and sell it, and suddenly it’s “art”. The point is, I don’t care about the process so much, I care about the end result: how it makes me feel as a consumer of art.
This is why “art” itself is not just a passing fad, but a constant commentary on the zeitgeist, often poking fun at it, or presenting it from a different angle or through a different lense than you personally would have been looking through.
That’s why I would caution everyone here to not “throw the baby out with the bath water”.
Is thoughtless AI slop itself “art” - no, obviously, of course not!! In fact I’m glad this person was booted. But it can (and will) be leveraged by realtm artists who are trying to land a point, so I would encourage all critics of AI to have clear eyes and an open mind so they can enjoy all the very VERY fun and thought/conversation-provoking art that is to come on the subject of (or rebelling against) generative AI in the coming years.
The point is, I don’t care about the process so much, I care about the end result
And here a lot of artists would disagree with you. Because for artists, the act of creating is as important as - if not even more important than - the end product. To quote a smart college student’s musings I once heard: “Art is how artists process life experiences.”
The rest I agree with, AI is a tool and the biggest issues with it are the people who are creating it and the people abusing it and making life for artists worse. Adam Savage once said that someday some film student will do something really amazing with AI (and then Hollywood will steal it and copy it into the ground), but that hasn’t happened yet. He said that what he cares about when he looks at a piece is what he can see of the artist in that piece, and with AI, you see nothing.
As an aside, there’s a real conversation to be had about how the word “consumer” has replaced all forms of interaction in our vocabulary. We no longer enjoy or appreciate art - we consume it; we’re not customers, we’re consumers, etc. But that’s not really relevant to the conversation except as a comment on how companies have pushed all forms of enjoyment down to the level of eating a fast food burger.
Other dude doesn’t understand the difference between imaging and art. Art is the human perspective. This apparently is more than they can comprehend.
Honestly, they’re not wrong, it’s just that most people don’t understand that aspect of why artists are so against AI.
Art is also a conversation and a mirror. Entire artistic movements have been dedicated to creating pieces intended to evoke specific feelings in viewers.
The story of the series of paintings titled Who’s Afraid of Red, Yellow and Blue and the attacks on them are a great example of all of the points that I’ve talked about. As Wikipedia says:
Barnett Newman started the first painting in the series without a preconceived notion of the subject or end result; he only wanted it to be different from what he had done until then, and to be asymmetrical. But after having painted the canvas red, he was confronted with the fact that only the other primary colors yellow and blue would work with it; this led to an inherent confrontation with the works of De Stijl and especially Piet Mondrian, who had in the opinion of Newman turned the combination of the three colors into a didactic idea instead of a means of expression in freedom.
Of the four paintings in the series, two would be attacked with knives, with a second failed attempt on one of them resulting in an attack on another of Newman’s paintings instead. All because of some big canvases with the three primary colors painted on them in simple stripes. The first painting to be attacked is literally a red canvas with a single stripe of blue on one end.
if a banana taped to a wall is art than processing millions of images, finding correlation between said images and their captions and using the vectors to find those patterns in noise is art too
A banana taped to the wall has more human expression than any AI generated image
No it’s a scam for money laundering.
human expression has never been a requirement for art, apes can make art too
This is at the core of why you don’t understand anything and everybody is yelling at you and down voting you.
Art is not the same as imaging.
A computer can output imaging. A human artist can output art, which is the human perspective portrayed via imaging.
R. Mutt 1917 flashbacks
Clearly you can’t draw or paint and just another tech nerd happy to denigrate human made artwork as no different from the garbage spat out of a machine with little to no thought other than “draw me in Ghibli style”
Perhaps try understanding what art means and stop trying to equate human made art with mass produced content garbage?
Plenty of other artwork to choose yet funny how people always want to bring up the banana taped to a wall as an example as to why art is nonsense you must be an American 🙄
I mean Thomas Kinkade built an empire on basically the same bullshit so like, a lot of people will do it. Although at one point he was selling his own brand of slop as an investment.
My local hardware store has been selling cheap random “art” like this here for as long as I can remember. It’s copy-pasted low-quality slop since way before AI existed. I don’t see any more or less artistic value in a mass-produced print like that versus an AI generated image.
In that context, I really couldn’t care less whether that slop has been made in 5 minutes in paint by some underpaid intern or in 5 minutes using ChatGPT.
But if you go to an art expo with undisclosed AI “art”… well.
I’m with you, btw.
I like this point. Thanks.
I mean, you can spend days refining a prompt while looking at a trillion variations of the same possible image. Then trying to upscale it while improving important details instead of losing them. Then checking textures and backgrounds on photoshop to clean up hallucinations.
Or indeed you can just save a cool image from the midjourney feed and print it. There’s no real moral dillema yet because most people aren’t trying to do art with difusion models.
No moral dilemma, but also no legal issue since AI doesn’t get copyright protection.
I have half a mind to print this whole lemmy thread and try to sell it.
It’s possible for ‘AI art’ to not be crap.
One can use sophisticated tools, like depth maps and controlnet, to compose an image/video in all sorts of ways. One can spend hours touching up a generation in photoshop, like, you know, an artist that actually cares about what they’re presenting. One can use models that don’t feed blood sucking corporations. And like you said, one can disclose the whole process, upfront.
It’s just that the vast majority is crap from a few keywords mashed into ChatGPT, with zero deliberate thought in the work and that full ‘tech bro quick scam’ vibe.
So I guess what I’m saying is this:
Tell people that’s what you’re doing.
Is an unlikely scenario.
“AI artists” seem to be scammers. They will lie about their process. That’s who will attend things like this.
Meanwhile, the few hobbyist artists with diffusion in their creative pipeline would never dare show up to a place like this, because of the scammers ruining any hope of a civil reception.
It’s also important to remember these models are trained by sampling (imitating aspects of) images they don’t have the rights to use directly. I think it’s justified being angry about someone using your work -insignificantly mashed together with millions of other people’s work- without your permission, even if it’s to extend a background by 10 pixels lol
Not all them. Some are trained on pure public domain data (though admittedly most folks running locally are probably using Flux or Stable Diffusion out of convenience).
And IMO that’s less of an issue if money isn’t changing hands. If the model is free, and the “art” is free, that’s a transformative work and fair use.
It’s like publishing a fanfic based on a copyrighted body. But try to sell the fic (or sell a service to facilitate such a thing), and that’s a whole different duck.
50 Shades of Grey be like…
Yeah, that’s an interesting case.
I guess there was no incentive for Stephenie Meyers and E. L. James (and their movie adaptation money banks, Lionsgate and Universal) to sue. But apparently it was brought up in some kind of lawsuit over an actual pornographic adaptation:
In June 2012, the film company Smash Pictures announced its intent to film a pornographic version of the Fifty Shades book trilogy…
Smash Pictures responded to the lawsuit by issuing a counterclaim and requesting a continuance, stating that “much or all” of the Fifty Shades material was part of the public domain because it was originally published in various venues as a fan fiction based on the Twilight series. A lawyer for Smash Pictures further commented that the federal copyright registrations for the books were “invalid and unenforceable” and that the film “did not violate copyright or trademark laws”.[206] The lawsuit was eventually settled out of court for an undisclosed sum and Smash Pictures agreed to stop any further production or promotion of the film.[207]
It’s also important to remember these models are trained by sampling
IMO, training software on the corpus of human art without payment or attribution is not good for society and art in general, but, humans who create non-abstract are trained and honestly create in a strikingly similar way. The person hired to make an art piece of Catherine the Great doesn’t disclose that he looked at Alexander Roslin’s painting of her and is greatly copying the look and feel for the face or the Google search they used to find options for 1700’s royal clothing. The big difference in process between AI and an artist with reference art is the removal of the human element, and that’s super important.
But instead, we focus on how it was trained, when we train much the same way, or we call it all slop regardless of the actual quality, instead of calling out the real problem, the one problem that we can do something about, it’s taking a living away from humans.
Slop machines have more in common with tracing than with learning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-5mZ_9CPY
You can hate the output, you can hate copying the IP, you can hate the people involved, but the process is nothing like tracing. It’s closer to black fucking magic :)
It’s not magic.
You’re in a cult.
funny, I didn’t feel like a kettle this morning.
anyway have a good one
for 1700s* royal clothing
This reminds me so much of the HDR photo craze. I remember seeing booths just like this!
Going to local restaurants/attractions and seeing shitty “art” with price tags starting over $200. They were all bad digital photos, taken with no comprehension or awareness of lighting, perspective, composition, etc. Cloddishly fiddle with various sliders, maybe delete the entire green color channel for some reason, hey I discovered this filter called Posterize, hit print.
A third of them were angle shots of the photo-takers modded Subaru. I’m trying to paint a picture here, don’t take it literally.
I am sincerely hoping, despite my positions against AI for most applications, that there will be some positive effects in the end from this AIArt baloney.
I think the same-y-ness of what the visual generators are outputting will wear so thin on people, so quickly. Because in a broad sense they’re all drawing from the same “averaging out”. And maybe there will be a bit of a cultural backlash, if you will, where people unconsciously become attracted back to hand made things. I don’t think we as a huge collective blob of humanity will be able to stand hearing the same note over and over.
Maybe I’m deluding myself, hell I probably am to a degree.
Holy shit, this brought a big smile to my face today, thank you! 😄
This one too, I love the “look how easy it is to make real art” sign lol
images should be “shit”
This is really tame! Dragon Con has a tendency to make shrines and altars all over the place, it’s a huge part of the culture. Like putting googly eyes on things and leaving trinkets around.
This reminds me of an old story I heard about how a very talented pottery artist got a lifetime ban from the handcraft fair for selling molded products (pottery made with molds, not by hand).
It was interesting because his quality items actually were handcrafted, he just had molded basic stuff on the side that I guess was selling decently well.
Would be funny if an AI booth did the same.
Can’t even run cons at cons anymore. What’s the world coming to?
It’s dragoncon, the con needs to be ran by a dragon
Kevin O’Leary?
I bet this guy was selling AI images of a dragon playing the 3-cup-game with another dragon pretending to be in on it to build hype.
of course not, you don’t want to mess with recursions in production
They should throw a con at the main source of cons: the constitution!
I am an artist who works exclusively in the medium of gummy
bears?
Venus de Milos
You love to see it!
Now penalize all corporations for using it and boycott any you catch doing so. Its nearly impossible. But we can try. Fuck the theft of art and humanity.
Whoever thinks they could get away with such tripe at Dragon Con, full of the most rabid fans of the characters they’re “arting”. Not to mention the copyright issues.
I like the coffee stain there. Makes it seem more like he got black bagged than asked forcefully to leave.
Damn, I wish I had seen that in person. (I barely visited that part of the con – I made a beeline to Bil Holbrook’s booth to congratulate him on 30 years of Kevin and Kell, and then left again because I was in a hurry to get to a panel.)
That is a name I hadn’t thought of for awhile. I should go read it again, got a decade to catch up on!
I’ll be honest: I hadn’t thought of it in a while either, until I ran across this post the other day. I used to read it in the newspaper, but quit subscribing and neglected to add it to my webcomic bookmarks, so I need to catch up too!
Oh man… I’m gonna be on the lookout for this garbage when I’m at BLFC. I don’t want to end up giving money to a fraud.
I saw something about the cops being called on them or another vendor selling ai art, which is as hilarious as it is maybe a bit overkill.
From what I’ve read, it was because they refused to leave.
Yeah that makes sense.
Apparently, it was a regular artist who got the booth (you have to send images to the organizers of what you’re going to sell), but her boyfriend did some AI art and swapped it in on the second day.
I haven’t seen any mention of that, the person knew they were selling ai slop and were arrogant about it.
swapped it in
With the knowledge of the girlfriend? That’s scummy. Without? Pretty fucked up.
Surely she would have to be aware of it? It can’t possibly be good to have no recollection or recognition of what it is you’re selling.
Not that cops even care. Nor they should i don’t want them involved for a nothingburger.
