Everyone else surprised that a school district would take any action at all against any bully, let alone one bullying a trans student.
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Knowing how a good amount of these kids are raised now by right wing assholes, it’s fair to assume thing turned a LOT worse
And right wing iPads. They’re absorbing some really terrible stuff without supervision, or even with mild supervision and guidance it still gets through.
And blocking kids from those platforms isn’t the answer.
I got in to two separate arguments on the internet over this today.
The kids should be free to participate in all platforms
My opinion: no. Children under certain age have no capacity to detect malice or disinformation when interacting with others, especially adults and algorithms bent on harm.
Hell, most adults probably aren’t. But as long as a child has a guardian, it’s the guardian’s responsibility to teach, guide and protect.
Letting a child lose into the internet is harmful, just like letting one out into a city.
I don’t think age verification is a particularly good tool to enforce that, but I don’t know what is, on a societal level.
I do agree with the stated goals tho.
I agree with this. I don’t think any of the legislation put forward, in multiple countries, with the stated goals of “protecting the children” are actually meant to protect the children. If they were I would indeed support them because I have watched friends struggle with their children. But I’m not entirely sure legislating this problem away is even possible.
But parents I know can sit right next to their kids while they have screen time and some of the stuff that gets sent to their children’s devices is questionable. It’s a lot of emotional and mental labor constantly on parents to course correct some of that sometimes sneaky content. And this is a dual working home who are already stretched thin on time and energy. And banning the older children from devices altogether is pretty much impossible because of school and peers.
I saw a post the other day and it made a valid point. When we were kids there seemed to be a lot more sites with games and stuff geared toward children like Neopets and I remember Gaiaonline fondly. Were there some questionable things? Sure, it was the Wild West of the Internet and I had like zero and I mean zero supervision online, but there just seemed to be more stuff explicitly for kids. Games, interactive educational sites, chats and forums. Not just “versions” of things for kids.
Perhaps I am missing something? Someone please jump in if I am misguided on the apps and sites available today. I would gladly pass that info along to some pairs of parents I know.
I was being sarcastic. I’m surprised no one noticed.
Usually it’s “fuck this! Parents should do their job!” Around here and in gamer/tech nerd spaces.
It’s so weird how I agree with you, yet I’m the one with the downvotes here. Just because I’m being sarcastic? I don’t think so. I think they are reactionary and just pissed that what I says aligns with the option platforms are taking.
They were going to cause a problem no matter what the outcome was. Ignore.
If there had been a person with a vagina in the boys locker room in high school, I’d have been happy about that as a teenager.
At the very least i wouldn’t be butthurt about it. How about we don’t bully people at all, huh?
you’d have been happy with one of the popular girls walking in mid change and seeing your shriveled little cock pre-shower?
that’s kinda weird tbh
Can we not do the “boys should be grateful” thing please? It’s one step away from “Niiiice” and two away from “An erection is consent”. It’s not particularly helpful yo reduce a transmasc to “a person with a vagina” either.
My mistake. You’re absolutely right.
Holy shit, the unhinged right are masters of making themselves out to be the real victims. What fucking chodes they are.
Crybullying is a tactic we let work far too often.
lol I read cyber bullying, whoopsI dealt with them enough people that my response to crybulling is to laugh in their face and dare them to throw a punch. Which is surprisingly effective when you are a five five dude who pulls off the wildman look quite well.
And the “left” is sitting back and allowing their country to be steamrolled by these fucking chodes. It’s embarrassing, really.
They get triggered if the wind blows the wrong direction. Fuck em.
Oh my god receiving consequences for being a shit head violates my 1st amendment rights!!!
Fuck them.
Real talk the 1st amendment doesn’t apply in school or other private institutions.
Won’t stop them from playing the victim.
First amendment absolutely applies in public schools.
Depends on the situation, but schools act in loco parentis, assuming the responsibility of the parent while the child is in their custody.
The legal argument, which has been upheld by courts, is that parents don’t have to respect 1st amendment rights regarding the discipline of their children, so therefore schools don’t either.
And it makes sense if you think about it. A kid shouldn’t be able to disrupt class, sling racial slurs, verbally assault another student or teacher, etc. with impunity. The situation in the article is a prime example of this.
I also found out the hard way that they don’t have to respect your 5th and 6th amendment rights either, as I was questioned without being read my rights, and that was used against me in court.
Have you seen the courts lately? they’ve turned themselves into a farce with ever more flagrant anti-constitutional rulings. Citing them doesn’t hold the gravity it once did
As usual, the cruelty is the point!
I’m surprised they even noticed, trans men don’t tend to exist to these bigots
This has gone too far. Conservative media has just become purposeless cruelty. Bullying in any form shouldn’t be allowed in school. Its obviously not only inhumane to allow that shit but its a liability for schools.
When was it not? Rush was pretty mean back in the day.
Nobody in either of my kids schools get bullied. It hasn’t been an issue for 20 years. It doesn’t take a lot of effort either. Kids just don’t see the point, they have better things to do.
If you make an effort you can shut that shit down.
Spoken like every school admin and parent turning a build eye to bullying right in front their faces ever.
No. The opposite of that.
The schools make a safe place to go to school part of the curriculum. They do not turn a blind eye. They also don’t threaten punishment, but encourage inclusiveness. Of course that is WOKE now so most other schools are going to ramp up the bullying.
I talked to my kids and their friends many times over the years, and was surprised because it is so different than what I had.
They just don’t even see the point in harassing anyone, it has no value to them, and they never get harassed either.
And then everyone started clapping
More likely your kids and their friends were the bullies. That’s why you never heard about it lol
Whatever. Actually I was asking them because they very much are the kids that might have been bullied.
I get it, nobody wants it to go away or be addressed. If someone like me says it can be better it’s jokes and no it can’t.
And that’s why it is a problem.
Nobody in either of my kids schools get bullied. It hasn’t been an issue for 20 years.
Maybe your kids went to a unicorn of a school, but most schools have some sort of bullying problem, whether it’s about queer issues, race, economic status or even just an ordinary name. If the school allows it, bullies will exist and find something, anything to bully passive kids over.
I agree. I am just saying it does not have to be that way.
That’s not how you worded it. You sound like you think bullying only started recently with trans students.
Good for your kids I guess. That experience is not universal. My nephew has had repeated issues with it.
No its not universal. Its depressing other schools won’t make the effort and I only said it because I am hoping people realize it doesn’t have to be this way.
A school, parents, and community can try and focus kids attention on being better. But they don’t. Hell many communities and parents are becoming worse.
I got involved because I had good reason to think my kids would have been targets.
Edit: I am not stupid, I know it occurs, but it is infrequent. They schools make equity and inclusiveness a cornerstone of education. Well at least they did, who know what will happen now.
No. Down voting is disagreeing with bullying hasn’t been a thing for 20 years. Many people here have been bullied in the last twenty years. Heck, at my kid’s school there was a bullying incident that caused quite a stir a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, the district no longer has any tools to deal with it if the restorative justice model doesn’t bring all the parties to the table. The parents, from what I hear, said it was a boys will be boys thing. And I know of at least one person who withdrew their child in no small part due to this.
So I agree that bullying is probably way down from when I was a kid, but to say it isn’t a thing because you have no awareness of it is a little self centered.
I am not saying it doesn’t exist, I don’t want to imply that.
What I was trying to say, is it doesn’t have to. Maybe I should have made that more clear. The schools my kids went to made it a priority to make it go away, and they succeeded. They did what you do with all kids, you move their attention and reward the good behaviors. They have a large age difference so this spawns many years.
It is so depressing that other schools throw up their hands and just say kids will be kids. My whole point wasn’t to say it doesn’t happen, but that it CAN be better.
School bullies are tolerated for the same reason police tolerate the proud boys. The Christian agenda is to raise their kids to be Christian Soldiers terrorizing Queer kids and we’re apparently supposed to go along with letting it happen. Fuck that.
Of course they are because cruelty is the point.
I think a lot of people have not read the article. Locker rooms/changing rooms are already uncomfortable. If there was a girl in my locker room in school, I would have been uncomfortable to. From the article, I wouldn’t go so far as to call it bullying, and suspending the students, but it’s clear that this is a time to have a talk with them, and if he is willing, the trans student as well.
In fairness to the school district, they said they would not have suspended the students for something like this, and they are investigating. So chances are there is more that happened than what is in the news cycle.
The problem is that it boils down to not wanting trans kids to exist. You have a trans boy, presenting as male, blocked from the boys locker-room.
Care to guess what would have happened if they tried to use the girls locker room as all the righties are demanding?
Say you’re in the womens restroom and Buck Angel walks in because he’s legally blocked from using the mens room, imagine the reaction.
It’s not about which bathroom is the "right’ bathroom. They don’t want trans people to have the human right to use ANY bathroom.
The cruelty is the point.
Then it’s fortunate that your personal experience doesn’t dictate school safety procedures :)
I agree, but let’s analyze this a bit further… Who’s personal experience should dictate school safety procedures?
Whose*
stay in school lol
Great. Thanks for the grammar lesson.
Now, do you want to examine your statment, or do you wanna pass on that?
I’m happy to discuss with any educated person! lol
I’m here. The question is open. Feel free to actually analyze the scenario you proposed. I’d imagine an educated person like you definitely considered the implications of what they wrote before they bothered to write it, so it should be a simple task for someone as smart as you to just recall your thoughts from yesterday and put it into words here today.
I was very clear with my requirements, if you need help understanding them feel free to ask a grade school teacher
I’m going to circle back around, there was an investigation launched. They don’t launch those investigations without evidence. And the boys were suspended, which means that the school board, with their experience dealing with bullies found that this was a situation where a trans boy was being bullied by his peers. The school used it’s experience to determine the answer question you posed. And suspended the bullies.
In your comment that I initially replied to, you pushed the idea that these kids truly believe that this is a girl. I think it’s far more likely that they know he’s trans, and view him as a freak. Calling him a girl wasn’t there perception. It was the language they chose to bully someone they see as different.
And incidents like this are why suicide rates are high in the trans population.
It sounds like there wasn’t a girl in the locker room, but a trans boy.
I’m not saying that isn’t awkward, but your perception of events aren’t exactly accurate either.
I’m trans personally, and I think the solution to this is more gender-neutral spaces. If I use the men’s room, I make men uncomfortable because I’m a woman. If I didn’t pass, I might make folks uncomfortable in the women’s room instead.
The issue is the gender binary and our cultures discomfort of anything outside it. Not that a trans boy was more comfortable in the boys locker room.
That said, I don’t think the trans boy should have been filming. I get the he wanted to catch the harassment on video, but an audio recording would have served the same purpose.
No, I think I got it alright.
and if he is willing, the trans student as well.
I imagine some girls would be equally as uncomfortable with this boy in their locker room. From the perspective of those other boys, there was a girl in their locker room. We need to teach understanding that trans people exist, and they need to use bathrooms and locker rooms as well.
I’m with you on having more availability of gender neutral locker rooms, but until schools either integrate all locker rooms (unlikely, seeing how parents have reacted) or build a 3rd locker room (equally unlikely IMO) then we need to teach about how trans people feel, and replace fear and discomfort with understanding and acceptance.
If there was a girl in my locker room in school, I would have been uncomfortable too.
I was referencing specifically this part of your post.
But I agree with your take overall. And see that in the quoted text you were referencing the boys perceptions. But it also sounds like this harassment was ongoing, hence the trans boy feeling the need to record it. Calling him a girl was likely part of that harassment. They likely know he’s trans. But are learning a lot of exclusionary rhetoric from their peers and likely adults too. Which they used to harass and exclude the trans boy.
We need education, inclusion. And yeah, safe gender neutral spaces too.
In fairness to my past self, a locker room was a place to change my clothes and get out. I was uncomfortable being in there with anyone for any length of time.
I’m trying to take a view from the other boys, who see him as a girl. You can’t reasonable expect people who’ve grown up in a society where they’re is a binary assignment between boy and girl at birth to suddenly understand and accept a trans person, without some kind of education, coaching and adjustment period. From the other boys perspective, this student was a girl, and he just came into the locker room and started filming them. If I went into a women’s locker room and started filming, I probably would get a police escort out of the building with some shiny new bracelets. There are two sides to this story. I’m not saying that the trans boy wasn’t being harassed. I was saying that there is more going on here, because a couple of boys saying “I’m not comfortable with this girl in the locker room” wouldn’t get them suspended for 10 days, the school district said the same thing in the article.
I was also uncomfortable being in there. And I agree with you that the article doesn’t give us enough background of what was going on, because obviously there’s a lot more to the story if the school board did find that these kids were bullying.
And I agree that filming wasn’t appropriate, presumably there would have been a lot of boys in there that weren’t bullies.
Anyway, I think there is a lot more to this story than what is in the article. So us from the outside, it’s just conjecture. The scoreboard made a decision on what they thought was going to keep kids safe. And their decision was to suspend kids they perceived as being bullies.
No, what we need to teach is that its ok to voice opinions that go against the grain of the perpetually online. You cry about trans kids being made to feel uncomfortable by other kids who dont feel comfortable, but you have nothing at all to say about the trans kid walking in filming underage boys in a locker room.
The trans issue is not for children to figure out. Its the schools job to do that. Forcing kids to go to gym, thus forcing them to use the locker room, thus forcing them to be uncomfortable. And you’re all scratching your fucking heads of why this happened, and blaming the fucking kids.
Anyone else walks into a boys locker room with a camera recording, is going to jail. Instead the victims of this invasion are the ones found to have been sexually harassing the one recording them…
I agree completely and I’m impressed that you were so cordial with @Bytemeister@lemmy.world
To be fair, the big WTF to me was that the trans boy walked into the locker room to film the reactions. I think breaking out the camera in any locker room by anyone would be considered unacceptable.
True. My guess is that this is something that has been consistently happening to him. Knowing how schools slow-roll harassment and bullying compliants (unless it has been massively reworked in the last 20 years) he probably saw video evidence as the only way to force the staff to intervene, and was willing to accept the risks of filming the incident.
Teenagers are tricky, could have been to document unjust harassment, or it could have been to ragebait the other kids. Without having seen the video, I’ve no idea which way it went, and even then might be impossible to know without broader context.
Makes it very difficult to fairly cover a potentially nuanced situation since the privacy of underaged kids is important, so we are left with vague second hand reporting.
Funny how we make up excuses for trans kids, when everyone else would rightfully be called out for the shocking invasion of privacy. Fuck that school. And fuck its representatives who had nothing to say about a student filming underage boys in a lockerroom.
Sure sure,
On the flipside though, if this student had been verbally and physically harassed multiple times while in the locker room while staff ignored his complaints, then he may have felt compelled to film simply to prevent worse harassment from occuring.
Clearly, there is more going on than what information is publicly available.
Think about you HS days. Did you ever here a boy say “I am feeling uncomfortable” and not being sarcastic. and acting suprised… it was march. They knew who the person was. They were calling it out to be mean and make the person uncomfortable or even afraid. They were trying to build momentum and to get others to join in the harassment.
Did you ever here a boy say “I am feeling uncomfortable” and not being sarcastic. and acting suprised
I’m actually going to believe that one is ‘genuine.’ It’s amazing how quickly people begin acting in over-exaggerated ‘civility’ when a phone or camera is in obvious sight.
In the video, which became public in May, one boy can be heard asking, “There’s a girl in here?” Another adds, “Why is there a girl? I’m so uncomfortable there is a girl.” Their comments prompted another boy to insist that the trans student leave.
…this is “bulling” is it? In my day, bullying was getting the shit kicked out of me every day. And I didnt even get the worst of it. Kids being assholes has always been a thing, as much as everyone wants to deny it. One kid in my school was held down while another dude pissed in his mouth. We were 7 at the time.
From the article, the trans student entered the boys locker room with a fucking video camera going. But its the boys who felt uncomfortable who that were found responsible for sexual harassment and sex-based discrimination???
I dont like MAGA either, but this is all just so fucking stupid. And its clear as fucking day that none of you read the fucking article.
Looks like it’s been misreported as one male saying in the locker room “there’s a girl in here” and others saying they felt uncomfortable with a girl there. The school say there’s more to it than media covered. Suspending a group for 10 days for expressing discomfort wouldn’t be valid, but obviously that’s not what happened
