Please read Section 201(3)-(4) of the Real ID Act:
(3) OFFICIAL PURPOSE- The term ‘official purpose’ includes but is not limited to accessing Federal facilities, boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, entering nuclear power plants, and any other purposes that the Secretary shall determine.
(4) SECRETARY- The term ‘Secretary’ means the Secretary of Homeland Security.
Source: https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/real-id-act-text.pdf
In other words, the Secretary of Homeland Security has unilateral authority to expand the uses of real IDs. In their 2008 rule, DHS even doubled down:
“DHS does not agree that it must seek the approval of Congress as a prerequisite to changing the definition in the future (except of course to remove one of the three statutorily-mandated official purposes) as § 201(3) of the Act gives discretion to the Secretary of Homeland Security to determine other purposes.”
That could include voting, accessing medical care, etc. Do you trust Kristi Noem with this power? Do you trust every future secretary with this power?
If not, I urge you to not get a real id if you don’t have one, or turn in your real id for a state one if you do have one, and instead get a passport. The DHS cannot enforce anything if the majority of Americans refuse to get real ids. Let us not just bow down to a national id that invades our privacy and could be used to control us.
Having a passport is a legal form of ID, and is covered under Real ID. Some people claim this is about a digital ID, which I’m torn on (despite the evidence of age verification in multiple states in the US) at the moment.
There are indeed plans to create a digital id that can be updated in real time according to AAMVA testimony: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM07/20231205/116640/HHRG-118-HM07-Wstate-GrossmanI-20231205.pdf
Suppose the Secretary of Homeland Security says you need a real id to vote or receive medical care. And suppose we now have digital real ids. What’s gonna happen to you if you do something the government or corporations don’t like? Well, your real id will be revoked in real time and you won’t be able to access medical care.
We must stand up to this now. Passports will generally be safe this century from digitalization because the US would need to convince 150+ countries to accept a digital passport.
They will just prevent you from doing things without it. Like let’s say tomorrow they say you need to show Real ID to vote, if you refuse to get a real ID and only have a normal drivers license it’s not like you would be able to say “ I don’t have a real ID so you have to let me vote anyway” they will just ban you from voting until you get one or an equivalent document I.e. passport
That’ll only true once over 95% of Americans have a real id. Right now, 50-60% of Americans have a real id, and that number needs to go down. Again, the DHS cannot enforce anything if the majority of Americans refuse a real id; the proof of this is the fact it’s taken 20 years to begin “initial enforcement”. With resistance, we can change those 20 years to “never”.
Can’t put my correct gender on a passport like I can a real ID. And I need to be able to fly since it’s the only feasible long distance transportation in this country. So, I need to keep mine.
What country are you even talking about? How on Earth can you burst in and shout a mysterious country’s laws without context?
We’re not your flatmates
I didn’t want one, but I was just given one the last time I went to get a DL.
Yeah, I’ve heard that from other people as well. What you should do: if you live in Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas, or Wyoming, you can only get a real id. Contact your state legislators and governor to demand a state id. If you don’t live in those states, specifically request a state id and only bring what you need for a state id. In Illinois for example, you can prevent a real id from being issued to you by mistake by bringing only 1 proof of address instead of 2.
I don’t live in one of those states, so I’m not sure why it was done the way it was.
I started the DL application online and took the requested docs to an office to finalize it without seeing any option to select the type of license I wanted.
The woman who processed it actually told me I didn’t bring the right documents, but that it didn’t matter because I could just sign an affidavit stating that I really, actually do live here.
It’s kind of bizarre that the US doesn’t have a national ID for internal everyday use, and people are just expected to have and use their driver’s license for ID purposes.
You don’t need a driver’s license. You can get a non-driver state id. The reason so many Americans have a drivers license is because the US has terrible public transportation.
You either get a driver’s license or a state ID (which may be compliant with Real ID if it’s compliant). You generally can’t have both in any of the 10 states I’ve lived in.
You can have a drivers license and a state Id. You just can’t have 2 real id compliant cards.
There a few states that don’t allow you to have multiple state issued credentials (Indiana, Illinois).
Usually you are not allowed to have multiple IDs from multiple states.
Given those limitations I’m not sure I see value in having both.
In my state you really don’t have a choice. They do not issue regular IDs anymore.
Nah it makes sense, if you don’t drive a car you’re not a real US citizen
/s
yeah, myself, I just need a bit more shooting practice to receive my citizenship
I hope there are enough schools near you for your final shooting tests.
I have been waiting over a year to get a passport. They’re so backed up that they literally just send you your documents back and ask you to reapply in a given amount of time. It’s also more expensive to get a passport than it is to get a driver’s license or “real ID” and you may not have the option to just not have one if you work somewhere that requires it (like an airport).
If your concern is that they might change the rules about being allowed to use Real ID for voting (or that having a Real ID would be a requirement for voting, excluding non-Real ID licenses or state ID’s because the government could potentially invalidate the ID you do have, I’m going to point out that in this time where ICE is literally stealing people off the street regardless of their legal status in the country and deporting them, what you’re suggesting doesn’t make sense especially with the higher bar of entry for a passport, and the fact that some states do not any longer provide any other option besides passport or REAL ID.
I paid for expedited but I got mine like 6 weeks or slightly less in April
“ICE is literally stealing people off the street”, therefore we shouldn’t fight against laws that give more power to DHS? Flawless logic.
As in, not being able to readily Identify yourself because you don’t renew a license or state ID because you’re protesting the Real ID implementation and roll out is likely to result in you not receiving due process.
Ok, I did not tell people to not have a license at all. If you live in a state where you can only get a real id (Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas, Wyoming), absolutely renew it. However, if you don’t live in those states, you can turn in your real id for a state one, and I’m recommending that everyone do that.
As for “not being able to readily identify yourself”, it is my opinion that no one should be required to carry their id and that if the police stop you, you should only provide what is legally required of you. Illinois for example is a no id state, and the police cannot just ask you to identify yourself (excluding traffic stops). However, I also recognize that there are dangers to asserting your rights against law enforcement. If you fear for your life, then of course there is no shame in complying with what is requested of you.
I don’t think you’re really addressing what I said. You took one thing out of it you didn’t like to argue about and left the rest as if it didn’t exist.
There is nothing stopping this establishment (regime, government, whatever you want to call it) from deciding that the Real ID is the only valid government ID and that state ID or Driver’s License isn’t a valid form of identification. You posit that the Real ID could in some way be invalidated or change the rules making it unstable for things like voting or identification in certain circumstances and that this is a reason to get a passport or a State ID.
This neglects states where it is illegal to have both a state ID and a driver’s license, people who can’t afford both, people who can’t afford a passport etc.
Most state websites will mention somewhere that a state ID acts as a form of identification within the state. Meaning the federal government could absolutely not consider it a valid form of identification. Other states aren’t even required to take your state ID as a valid form of identification.
You’re also neglecting that plenty of states haven’t enacted a mandatory Real ID program yet or it hasn’t gone into affect yet, however that may happen in a year, two years etc and so not getting a Real ID upon renewal will end up costing them more money they don’t necessarily have.
Your reasons for not getting a Real ID aren’t even particularly clear and you didn’t answer any clarifying questions.
What makes the Real ID more dangerous than a State ID or Passport?
How much more expensive is it to get a Passport than a Real ID?
Is the process to receive a Real ID in some way more of a risk to personal privacy?
If it is a risk, what are the risks to personal privacy while getting a State ID or Passport?
Is there a reason to believe that this regime or one in the future will preclude Real ID from being used to prove things like citizenship status or voting rights?
Got passports back in march…took 8 weeks. Never heard of it taking a year.
This is entirely irrelevant to any member of this community that is not a US citizen.
I would appreciate if you could post things like this in a regional community to avoid generating useless noise for everyone else.
Yeah, and the UK Online Safety Act is only relevant to the UK, so it shouldn’t be posted in this community I guess.
Maybe a compromise could be including “US:” in the title, so others may scroll past
This is acceptable. Saw all the OSA posts and thought it was the US because we’re looking at similar (possibly worse?) bills against freedom and privacy.
The DHS cannot enforce anything if the majority of Americans refuse to get real ids.
That ship has sailed. Some states have been issuing them since 2012. Multiple political leaders from both sides opposed it: both Clintons, Ron Paul, Mike Huckabee, Obama. And advocacy groups on both sides opposed it: guns rights activist to immigrant rights activists to domestic violence aid groups. Too little, too late to swim against the post-9/11 security theater that George W Bush used to speedrun introducing so many bad things.
And the “what ifs” you presented are far from the worst they can do with it
“are far from the worst they can do”
I beg to differ. First, you should know there are plans to make real ids digital, possibly placed on your phone, and real-time and remotely accessible according to AAMVA testimony: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM07/20231205/116640/HHRG-118-HM07-Wstate-GrossmanI-20231205.pdf
Now suppose that real ids are digital and required for medical care. Now, what’s gonna happen if you say something, or attend a protest etc., that the government or corporations don’t like? Well, in real time you will be denied your real id and consequently be unable to receive medical care.
This won’t happen today or even this decade. Right now they’re laying the groundwork for implementing this in maybe 20 years. That’s why we must fight back NOW.
Got mine forever ago because of the “you cannot fly without one” garbage.
You do not need a real id to fly. See here for a list of acceptable ids for TSA: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
30 something me was a goddamn idiot. 40 something me is a goddamn idiot but less so.
Thank you Caboose.
Something to note: In Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas, and Wyoming, you can only get a Real ID. If you live in one of these states, please contact your state senator, representative, and governor to express your concerns and demand a state id.
Also, everyone should contact their members of congress and the president, and demand that the real id act be repealed.
Brother its been 20 years. You’re not stopping it now, especially not in this climate, with this administration. You’re daft if you think its something anyone cares about after 20 years of implementation. There are kids who were born when the law passed, whose first ID was a RealID, who are now working adults.
