republicans have proven time and time again that they love children…in absolute most inappropriate way.
Let’s get this straight.
Psychiatrist are required to break doctor patient confidentiality if patient is a threat, right and report it.
Lawyers must report crimes to law enforcement, breaking confidentiality too.
But priests are ‘sprcial’ in the magic, secret telling closets?
We wont be free of groomers until we lock up every single pastor, priest, and every other Christian clergy in this country.
Freedom absolutism is great!
You can’t take away my freedom to rape kids!
This tracks with the US electing a pedophile.
The freedom of religion to continue enabling child rapists.
Perhaps all religion should die along with the cunts in charge.
I’m not a legal professional (merely an ill-informed amateur), and especially not an American one, but it seems to me like the judge’s order makes a pretty convincing argument that the injunction is legally warranted.
Maybe we might consider that federal law might be the problem before we rush to accuse the judge personally of being a nonce?
Even more evidence that it is far safer to leave your kids with a drag queen (or king) than the clergy.
What FREEDOM exactly is it violating?
Catholic doctrine is the privacy of the confessional is absolute. Plus there’s an argument that even the worst offender should have a place to unburden and beg forgiveness. Obviously forgiveness doesn’t need to be granted.
I feel like absolute confidentiality for sins that harm yourself fine… but actively stealing the innocence of youth shouldn’t be protected, it’s reprehensible and anyone protecting abuse should be charged
On a scale of 1 to 10, I wonder how old that judge’s last sexual
partnervictim wasOkay. I definitely get where everyone is coming from here. We all want to protect kids. I’m not sure this ruling is in the wrong though.
Here’s why. We demonize pedophilia to the point that people would kill someone that is attracted to children. I’m making a specific point here to NOT include child molesters. That’s a separate but very related issue. If we took the time to address the mental health issues that caused them to be attracted to children in the first place (eg, molested as children themselves, some other issue that therapy could address, etc), maybe we could stop them from going so far with their problem and actually save kids before they were abused.
Since they really don’t have anyone to talk to ever, maybe a priest could curb their behavior and act as a counselor to stop further abuse of children. If left unaddressed, maybe the molester would continue with many more victims, and the priest could stop them at 1. But if they no longer felt they could talk to a priest, then they continue.
Basically, as a country we should be doing MUCH better to stop pedophiles from dealing with their issues alone and help prevent them from actually molesting children. Failing that (since we are failing that), why are we trying to take away the next level of therapy for them? It makes no sense to continue to push them into a lonely corner and expect them to do differently. If the priests’ silence allows them to keep the molester from touching more kids, that’s a much better outcome overall.
The issue isn’t with therapy, or talking. The issue is what priests will do when they have evidence that a crime has occured.
I have enough of a Catholic background to know that confession isn’t a “Get Out Of Hell Free” card. You are supposed to be repentant, and part of that is owning up to any crime you might have committed and turning yourself in. Because of you are confessing a crime to your priest, they can’t really be sure that you are truly repentant until you make good for your transgression with the legal authorities.
But! Catholic priests have been caught diddling kids for years, and when the church found out about it, they preferred to deal with it “internally”. Instead of submitting the priests to secular authorities, they shuffled them off to some other parish to try to be repentant there. Often times, they just ended up doing it again. Where was the Catholic Church’s deeply held beliefs then?
This is why there is so much hostility with the church right now, they can act all sanctimonious when someone tries to impose reporting requirements on them but we know that they have covered shit like this up in the past. Any goodwill they might have had being religious leaders is now depleted. Why shouldn’t we treat them like everyone else?
That hasn’t worked for the last 1,000 years and it isn’t going to start working now.
the mental health issues that caused them to be attracted to children in the first place
Question - do we know this is the case? Or is it like other sexual affinities, like S&M or fetishism?
No, we need hard-ass fucking laws to protect children because our moral-fiber as a nation has been eroded away deliberately by capital forces that would absolutely package underage children for consumers if they could get away with it.
We are in a country where the average American thinks that one out of five people is transgender and many think that they are a threat to children, people who think our biggest threat comes from people in drag stalking public bathrooms, and yet are giving passes left and right to actual predators in positions of power. The conservative base in America broadly believes children are property, to be owned, enslaved, abused or used as desired. Right below this post is an update on Florida’s efforts to bring back child-labor on factory farms.
We absolutely fucking need better, harsher, stronger laws to protect our vulnerable people, be it children or handicapped or elderly. Particularly from fucking PRIESTS who are one of the biggest groups of offenders who protect each other from consequence. Fuck off with this stinking mess we call “Christianity” in the United States, if Jesus came back he would be flipping every last table and smacking every “Christian” into last century.
Let’s rephrase. Think of talking to a priest in this case a really poor level of free mental Healthcare. You think the best response is to take that away? I’m all for that if it’s replaced with something better. If we aren’t doing that though, then sure, you’d catch a few molesters when it is first announced. Then the other molesters stop talking to their last resort free counseling. And they continue to mess with children.
The entire issue could be solved with better mental Healthcare in the first place. I like the comments that suggested priests be required to refer these people to a program designed for them. Not straight to jail, but straight to better help so they’d top touching kids, and others will still come through and benefit as well.
moral-fiber as a nation has been eroded away deliberately by capital forces
For the love of fuck, can we stop blaming literally everything on capitalism? These issues long predate capitalism.
How about calling out mental health care for profit?
Since they really don’t have anyone to talk to ever, maybe a priest could curb their behavior and act as a counselor to stop further abuse of children
I think that’s rather naive… A priest is far more likely to just get some tips on how to rape kids.
I would argue that the ruling is correct. Child abuse should always be reported. But it shouldn’t lead instantly to jail. It should lead instantly to therapy, support, counseling and a plan of action which protects the person and the children in their life from harm.
Yes I hadn’t considered the reporting could be protected and not lead directly to jail. You are correct this should be the way. We just need to have a program set up to accept them.
It’s a huge relief to talk to someone who gets it.
We have 130 billion dollars available to give to law enforcement. 800 billion to defense. And not a dollar to treatment and counseling for people with potentially harmful attractions? It doesn’t make sense. The first step should be discussion of the problem and potential solutions. I’d like to see research done into the attraction, find out if there are environmental causes (ie. preventable ones), treatment for people with the attraction (can it be replaced? is there a non-harmful maintenance that makes it tolerable without relapse?), and justice for the victims & families that includes more than revenge.
Good point here: as a country we should be doing MUCH better to stop pedophiles from dealing with their issues
Just throwing the book at people who hurt kids isn’t working. Kids are still getting hurt every day. There’s far, far more pedophiles in our society than anyone realizes. The reason they’re not getting help is because everyone says, “instantly to jail for life” instead of trying to figure out where the problem comes from. They stay in hiding, hurting people in secret because there is no support for them anywhere.
I agree with this: We demonize pedophilia to the point that people would kill someone that is attracted to children.
Most people would make it illegal to have that attraction. It’s a slippery slope and I guarantee same-sex attraction would be next.
It’s a slippery slope and I guarantee same-sex attraction would be next.
How is that even in the same ballpark?
It’s like saying it’s a slippery slope form killing nazis to killing socialists…
Because if it’s possible to criminalize attraction, someone will use that to criminalize attractions that they don’t like. Homosexuality would be a crime in the same year.
Depending on your body count.
If you killed enough people, changes are very high, that you killed a socialist out of a misunderstanding or accident 🤓☝🏻
The law suppose to make them report child abuse, real one, that happened already. You can talk with your magic provider about how much you want to diddle kids, and he still can do 3% of what real therapist should be doing, if you want. The law was supposed to catch those who already diddle kids. Which nobody should be doing, no matter how much they want to.
These aggressive methods are not working. We need to provide better mental Healthcare for all people. These aggressive methods will lead to more child victims, not less. It’s unacceptable that people are putting their own disgust over the wellbeing of children.
I want to remind you once again, that you are defending actual child abusers. Not just people who have some fucked up desires and not act on them, but actual childfuckers. You are saying that people who already fucked kids should be shielded from law by religion because some other people also want to fuck kids but don’t do that.
You’re missing the point. I’m not defending them. Their actions are abhorrent andtheir victims deserve justice. I’m suggesting if we act aggressively towards these self reporters, you will actually INCREASE the number of molested children by disuading future self reporting from others.
I’m trying to decrease the number of victims. I don’t know how to give the victims justice, but decreasing future victims is paramount.
And you’re missing the point of what we’re talking about. Right now, the law allows active child molesters to execute well known religious loophole, where they “confess” their crimes to an unaccounted guy from religious organisation, and this act makes the crime nonexistent according to their proposed worldview. What it actually does, is that it clears the guilt from the perpetrator, allowing him to continue his acts. Knowing history of Catholic church, if it does anything is that it allows child molesters to exchange experiences and tips for future crimes.
Removing all oversight from this process increases the amount of crime going on, and that’s what you’re advocating for.
The point of letting people who didn’t act on their urges to get psychological help they need to continue not act on it, is obviously correct opinion you have. It’s just it doesn’t apply here.We might have to agree to disagree. Happily we agree that the kids are the most important thing here. I think if we had a solid counseling setup for people this would be an obvious thing, and you are correct that it should be a mandatory reporting. Until we do, I’m seeing this more as a free version of mental Healthcare which I don’t think should be impeded.
Yes, we need better.
There’s better places to begin fixing mental health infrastructure than nixing mandatory abuse reporting
How much mental health care would have fixed Epstein?
Also, mandating that religious orgs report it is not the same as punishing people for uncontrolled urges. Once the person is reported, they can get help. If it’s not reported, they then will keep abusing children until the are caught by someone else.
Freedom of religion is not freedom to protect pedophiles.
That’s a good point. I would be in favor of this if it was a gateway to better therapy and not as a way to punish them. Self reporting should not be punished. Definitely agree that priests should not be the ones doing all the counseling. Just making the point that they currently don’t have any options and this might be currently helping.
Gateway to punish abuse that had already happened.
You keep completely ignoring the fact that this law was not about reporting urges, it was about reporting abuse. You are defending predators who have already abused a victim. Which is disgusting.
Yeah it’s not a great thing. It’s kind of like letting a local drug dealer off Scott free because he helped take down a drug ring. It’s protecting a larger number of children at the expense of not punishing the guy who self reported and tried to get help. Doesn’t feel great but should protect more children overall.
Religion, ALL religion, is a fucking cancer, the blight of humanity.
This is a tragically close-minded opinion. You sound hurt and angry. I hope you get well.
It’s an opinion born of history. I hope you learn some history at some point.
Notice that I didn’t say faith is a cancer. Faith is one thing, religion is a whole other beast. Religion exists for one purpose, the same purpose it has always existed for. Control of the masses. That’s it.
You’re backpedaling because you know you’re wrong.
Bye!
Name one that isn’t. Don’t worry, I’ll wait.
You’re welcome for the lesson, by the way. Next one is on you, though.
Jainism is so great, because the induct children into the religion as monks, as a form of slavery…
So, back to finding an example, I guess?
They’re also really keen on starving people to death, too… If they think it happens to be a terminal illness.
So, you were saying?
Wow! But if I “overheard” part of this “confession” as a “mandated reporter” BY FED LAW (confessionals are NOT SOUND PROOF), I can go to jail if I do not report what I overheard and the government found out I knew… straight to court!
Yet, these fucks get a hall pass to keep fucking with kids “because of religion”, religion doesn’t give you the freedom to fuck with kids but the Catholics would know the most about fucking with kids wouldn’t they?!?! Appalling! Our nation is fucked!
I mean, am I surprised when our “president” is a know pedophile who talked about his own daughter sexually and was besties with Epstein!? WHERE IS THE CLIENT LIST!? We know Drumpf was probs the invite NUMBER 1 and FUNDED it! 🤦🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
Over the years, there were numerous lawsuits about the use of certain drugs in a religious context, and they were always shot down in the courts. THIS is where they choose to bend ?
I could be mistaken, but aren’t there are a handful of religions that have exemptions for religious ceremony? Or is that just Natives?
But you see, those other religions are pagan. This is a lawsuit brought by Christians.
I really wish that wasn’t the justification these judges use.
It’s weird how one group of people has such a warped idea of what “freedom” means.
There was a really great article about the difference between Northern liberty vs. the Southern notion of “liberty”. The Southern is mostly about the “liberty” to rule over others.
