Russia is now offering forcefully deported Ukrainian minors for coerced “adoption” through a newly created “catalogue”, where Ukrainian children are categorised by age, eyes and hair colour.
your beloved russia is doing a genocide again. you can stick your head in the sand and go into denial about it, but it won’t change the facts. russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked in an imperial campaign of military expansion. these are the facts, this is the reality
It’s clear to me that you’ll never change your mind, but the following is for rational people who want some insight into Putin’s motivations.
Putin has modeled his rule after the Csarist monarchy of the Russian Empire. He notably despises communism and blames it for the collapse of the USSR. He calls himself “president” but many within the state Duma believe the title to be an embarrassing western descriptor and would prefer to bestow on him the title of “pravitel” or “ruler”.
But Putin ran into a bit of a problem. Just as to be called Caesar you need to rule Rome, to be called czar you need to rule over all of Rus. For him, the cultural, historical, and religious significance of Kievan Rus was just too large to be ignored.
When it existed, the Russian Empire tried to erase the other eastern Slavic languages from their shared cultural memory. They acted as if there was no Ukraine and never had been, just as with Belarus. According to the Tsarists, Ukrainians had always been Russians and had no history of their own. The Ukrainian and Belorussian languages were banned. Ukrainian nationalism was a threat to the underlying myths of Russia and threatened the czars’ attempts at creating an “All-Russian People.”
Putin is emulating their rule and presents himself as a tsar-like figure. He’s built a massive, opulent palace for himself, with gold-plated double-headed eagles, a clear Imperial Russian symbol, everywhere—even in his personal strip club. Similarly, the Russian Orthodox Church helps him pacify the population and supports whatever myths Kremlin wants to glorify. He wanted to go down in the history books as a grand unifier of Russian lands—if not under the same government, then definitely as the hegemon of the Russian world.
Putin wants it both ways, to take credit for the Soviet legacy and, at the same time, be viewed in the same light as the emperors and czars of old. Therefore, he’s had to bring back and reaffirm the old, imperial myths and values—and to do that, he has to get Kyiv under his thumb. After all, it was the restored Kievan Rus that became Russia, the “Third Rome.” Ukraine going its own way, claiming Kievan Rus as its legacy, moving away from Moscow, getting autocephaly for its own orthodox church—all this runs contrary to Russian state mythology.
These imperial myths are what define Russia, what it even means to be a Russian. Without them, Russia just stops being Russia in the eyes of many. Putin is convinced that if this social glue is disrupted, then Russia will just split up in pieces again—and if he allows that to happen, then his legacy is ruined. For him, there can be no separate Ukrainian language, culture, or history. That is where his mind is at, stuck in the 18th and 19th centuries.
It’s clear to me that you’ll never change your mind
but man that is not true, I just wrote that I thought the same as you but then actually read about it and changed my mind.
I agree Putin is a wannabe monach, so is many many other people in other countries. Before we judge other’s culture we should take a deep and profound look at ourselves and be honest. We never cared about Ukraine, we also use it as a pawn for global chess game.
If we follow this logic Europe should invade the states now? That would be catastrophic and kill so many innocents. War is all cool and swag until you are in one.
You’re making excuses for a genocide, do you really not understand why that could make people upset?
Hopefully your powers of comprehension are more suited to discussions of history, let’s get into it:
Ukraine split from Russia in the 90s with a referendum, over 90% voted for independence. Russia has wanted to regain control over Ukraine ever since. In 2014 Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine’s sovereign territory. In 2022 it escalated into full scale war, with Russia attempting to take the entire country.
Ukraine is a distinct nation with its own language and culture. The people have the right to self determination, they are a sovereign nation. Fostering closer ties to the EU is their perogative as a free people, to call it provocation is to deny their essential freedom. Expanding borders through conquest is military expansion, plain and simple.
What can I tell you, this less here (mind you from the university of Chicago) is pretty compelling no? Video
why there is never nuance with this topic? Again the US is responsible for numerous war crimes for decades, it’s not crazy to think they did it on purpose.
If we make a deal, you break it and i get mad, you can’t tell me “oh wo wo what are you so mad?”, pretend nothing happened and call me crazy.
Don’t pretend like Mearsheimer is some sort of objective observer, he’s a fountain of wacky convictions. It’s also wild to use ‘get mad’ as a euphemism for military conquest and genocide.
Can we at least agree to call a spade a spade? Russia annexing Ukraine by force is military expansion. If we can put that to bed then the only issue in contention is determining if it was unprovoked or not. If we can’t agree on such a plainly obvious fact then I have misgivings we can come to an understanding at all.
Nah comon bro, dont attack the source. Let’s work on the argument. We live in a post-truth world, everyone can be discredited.
Can we at least agree to call a spade a spade? Russia annexing Ukraine by force is military expansion.
Yes, but I don’t really believe Russia’s goal is to expand. I agree with the professor that Russia doesn’t have the power (but also willingness) to expand and successfully maintain a “European russian colony”.
The way I see it is: Nato e Russia decided to not expand anywhere after the cold war. However NATO broke this pact and started expanding east (when they signed the agreement there NATO and Russia were geographically very far apart). We didn’t give signs of slowing down or admitting we broke a peaceful pact, we actually accelerated and promoted “red scare” propaganda tactics to discredit Russia.
So I can clearly see Putin say: “If you only understand war then I can also use your language”.
You should read about the Orange revolution, where NATO, US and EU fabricated news and speculations about fraud and changed the election.
I just wish there was a bit more honesty with ourselves and the world. As a european, if we really want to point fingers to other people’s faults and mistakes, we should first look inside and in our past, without justifying ourselves.
The aggression is warranted because you contested his facts without any evidence on your part, especially on a likely emotionally loaded situation. Just abstract “what if not”. Any debate would laugh you out of the room.
Not only is any sane person declaring that it’s fact that the current conflict is unprovoked and military expansion, but it’s also clearly labelled so in ICJ, which is, as much as you would want to believe otherwise, impartial as possible and extremely reserved to truly proven guilty verdicts.
Fearmongering western source capping and spreading russophobia. How shocking 😆
So what’s the real story
your beloved russia is doing a genocide again. you can stick your head in the sand and go into denial about it, but it won’t change the facts. russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked in an imperial campaign of military expansion. these are the facts, this is the reality
You might want to double check this because is factually not true.
It’s clear to me that you’ll never change your mind, but the following is for rational people who want some insight into Putin’s motivations.
Putin has modeled his rule after the Csarist monarchy of the Russian Empire. He notably despises communism and blames it for the collapse of the USSR. He calls himself “president” but many within the state Duma believe the title to be an embarrassing western descriptor and would prefer to bestow on him the title of “pravitel” or “ruler”.
But Putin ran into a bit of a problem. Just as to be called Caesar you need to rule Rome, to be called czar you need to rule over all of Rus. For him, the cultural, historical, and religious significance of Kievan Rus was just too large to be ignored.
When it existed, the Russian Empire tried to erase the other eastern Slavic languages from their shared cultural memory. They acted as if there was no Ukraine and never had been, just as with Belarus. According to the Tsarists, Ukrainians had always been Russians and had no history of their own. The Ukrainian and Belorussian languages were banned. Ukrainian nationalism was a threat to the underlying myths of Russia and threatened the czars’ attempts at creating an “All-Russian People.”
Putin is emulating their rule and presents himself as a tsar-like figure. He’s built a massive, opulent palace for himself, with gold-plated double-headed eagles, a clear Imperial Russian symbol, everywhere—even in his personal strip club. Similarly, the Russian Orthodox Church helps him pacify the population and supports whatever myths Kremlin wants to glorify. He wanted to go down in the history books as a grand unifier of Russian lands—if not under the same government, then definitely as the hegemon of the Russian world.
Putin wants it both ways, to take credit for the Soviet legacy and, at the same time, be viewed in the same light as the emperors and czars of old. Therefore, he’s had to bring back and reaffirm the old, imperial myths and values—and to do that, he has to get Kyiv under his thumb. After all, it was the restored Kievan Rus that became Russia, the “Third Rome.” Ukraine going its own way, claiming Kievan Rus as its legacy, moving away from Moscow, getting autocephaly for its own orthodox church—all this runs contrary to Russian state mythology.
These imperial myths are what define Russia, what it even means to be a Russian. Without them, Russia just stops being Russia in the eyes of many. Putin is convinced that if this social glue is disrupted, then Russia will just split up in pieces again—and if he allows that to happen, then his legacy is ruined. For him, there can be no separate Ukrainian language, culture, or history. That is where his mind is at, stuck in the 18th and 19th centuries.
but man that is not true, I just wrote that I thought the same as you but then actually read about it and changed my mind.
I agree Putin is a wannabe monach, so is many many other people in other countries. Before we judge other’s culture we should take a deep and profound look at ourselves and be honest. We never cared about Ukraine, we also use it as a pawn for global chess game.
If we follow this logic Europe should invade the states now? That would be catastrophic and kill so many innocents. War is all cool and swag until you are in one.
You might want to fuck all the way off. They invaded their neighbor, stole their land, slaughtered families, and stole their children.
Ukraine did nothing that could justify such atrocities. There is no excuse. It is a genocide.
Why the aggression? I just invited you to read, wtf. I thought the same as you and until I read Ukrainian history.
Yes, Russia invaded and committed crimes but “unprovoked” and “military expansion” is really not true. Remember that winners write history.
You’re making excuses for a genocide, do you really not understand why that could make people upset?
Hopefully your powers of comprehension are more suited to discussions of history, let’s get into it:
Ukraine split from Russia in the 90s with a referendum, over 90% voted for independence. Russia has wanted to regain control over Ukraine ever since. In 2014 Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine’s sovereign territory. In 2022 it escalated into full scale war, with Russia attempting to take the entire country.
Ukraine is a distinct nation with its own language and culture. The people have the right to self determination, they are a sovereign nation. Fostering closer ties to the EU is their perogative as a free people, to call it provocation is to deny their essential freedom. Expanding borders through conquest is military expansion, plain and simple.
What can I tell you, this less here (mind you from the university of Chicago) is pretty compelling no? Video
why there is never nuance with this topic? Again the US is responsible for numerous war crimes for decades, it’s not crazy to think they did it on purpose.
If we make a deal, you break it and i get mad, you can’t tell me “oh wo wo what are you so mad?”, pretend nothing happened and call me crazy.
Don’t pretend like Mearsheimer is some sort of objective observer, he’s a fountain of wacky convictions. It’s also wild to use ‘get mad’ as a euphemism for military conquest and genocide.
Can we at least agree to call a spade a spade? Russia annexing Ukraine by force is military expansion. If we can put that to bed then the only issue in contention is determining if it was unprovoked or not. If we can’t agree on such a plainly obvious fact then I have misgivings we can come to an understanding at all.
Nah comon bro, dont attack the source. Let’s work on the argument. We live in a post-truth world, everyone can be discredited.
Yes, but I don’t really believe Russia’s goal is to expand. I agree with the professor that Russia doesn’t have the power (but also willingness) to expand and successfully maintain a “European russian colony”.
The way I see it is: Nato e Russia decided to not expand anywhere after the cold war. However NATO broke this pact and started expanding east (when they signed the agreement there NATO and Russia were geographically very far apart). We didn’t give signs of slowing down or admitting we broke a peaceful pact, we actually accelerated and promoted “red scare” propaganda tactics to discredit Russia.
So I can clearly see Putin say: “If you only understand war then I can also use your language”.
You should read about the Orange revolution, where NATO, US and EU fabricated news and speculations about fraud and changed the election.
I just wish there was a bit more honesty with ourselves and the world. As a european, if we really want to point fingers to other people’s faults and mistakes, we should first look inside and in our past, without justifying ourselves.
The aggression is warranted because you contested his facts without any evidence on your part, especially on a likely emotionally loaded situation. Just abstract “what if not”. Any debate would laugh you out of the room.
Not only is any sane person declaring that it’s fact that the current conflict is unprovoked and military expansion, but it’s also clearly labelled so in ICJ, which is, as much as you would want to believe otherwise, impartial as possible and extremely reserved to truly proven guilty verdicts.
Feeble spin from lemmy.ml clown. How shocking 😆
A .world instance user classic lib response. How shocking 😆