I don’t know of any cases of imperialism recently, though I see what appear to be conflicts incorrectly framed as such.
For example, many say this about the Israeli/Arab conflict. However, this conflict is thousands of years old. The Israelis solidly lost a war to keep their land in the BC era, then after WWII, leaders decided to undo the loss, again by force. Predictably, the Arabs, having lived there for thousands of years now (since they were Babylonians!) were not happy. It is not simple.
The Israeli return may have been orchestrated by the imperial powers, but I would argue this is not imperialism or even a bad thing. Consider the colonial invasion of the Americas. That was clearly imperialism because my ancestors had never lived there, and had no claim to the land. We just wanted it. At best, we thought we could make better use of it than the natives. That was not the case with Israel, whose ancestors largely were the natives.
Of course, persecuting Palestinians is wrong. Imagine if thousands of years from now, the American Indians, supported by the international community, forced Americans to adopt their customs and religion or leave. That would not be right either, even though maybe they should have their land back!
We need to share in these cases, and are unfortunately bad at sharing.
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ignores Ukraine
welcome to Lemmy.ml
It’s almost like Ukraine is not a house, nor is annexation settler colonialism.
Except Russia also did and is doing settler colonialism, inasmuch they have been moving Ukrainians out and Russians into Ukraine for the past century at least, as they did with other Soviet republics, as they are doing to neighbouring states, with the aim of eroding their national identity.
Just like they are doing now. The only marginal difference is that there are not enough Ukrainians to alter electoral balances, and Russia would be able to dissolve the population of Ukraine via forced relocations instead of just killing them all. Both are genocide by the way.
Before i answer just tell me:
Is Israel doing settler colonialism?
Yes. And so is Russia.
What is your evidence that Russia is doing settler colonialism instead of imperialism?
That they are not merely trying to make Ukraine Russian-aligned.
They are trying to move 5 million Russians into Ukrainian territory, and have confiscated tens of thousands of homes after making their owners war refugees and are giving them to Russians.
They have kidnapped tens of thousands of Ukrainian children, and they are not just educating them to be Ukrainians accepting Russian rule, but they want to completely Russify them as a further attempt of erasing the Ukrainian nation.
Is Russia trying to exterminate Ukrainian people in the annexed regions and replace them with Russian settlers?
Definitely
Elaborate. You too @grue@lemmy.world Have there been mass deaths of civilians in Russian-occupied areas? Are they segregating the population or practicing apartheid based on ethnicity? Are they sterilizing Ukainians? Have marriages between Russians and Ukrainians been outlawed?
What kind of extermination campaign are they running? I’m not seeing it, besides relocating children out of the war zone. I suppose that could be argued as ethnic cleansing, but it can also be justified as protecting children from war so this alone isn’t enough imo
“that guy called me a bitch after I shot him, now we’re even”
I suppose Russia’s invasion is definitely imperialism, but I don’t see anyone saying both sides are at fault.
Some of the nuttier members of the ML communities are definitely saying it.
On the crosspost I’m seeing a single Feddit user saying it.
Which is in line with Feddit.org which supports Israel.
supporting Israel is a sign that the platform has been taken over by Hasbara bots.
There’s a surprising amount of Hasbara bots in this thread already.
Which might have tipped you off that this comic is not about Russia.
It is also about Russia.
Russian is trying to annex Ukraine not colonize it.
Good thing Hitler just wanted to annex the Sudetenland and not colonize it, he would have been a pretty bad guy otherwise
No Hitler did settler colonialism. In Europe. He threw the natives in ovens and stole their house.
That’s why Hitler is regarded as the ultimate evil. He did settler colonialism against white people.
Yep, that’s why Hitler is regarded as the ultimate evil, the settler colonialism.
The Anschluss and the annexation of the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia were both justified under the guise of protecting and uniting ethnic Germans in the regions, Hitler even said he’d totally, for realsies stop after that. But I wouldn’t expect .ml’ers to care about anything that happened before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact broke down.
A few weeks after the Wehrmacht’s March 1939 occupation of all Czechoslovakia, and despite increasing doubts about Western intentions, Stalin again approached the Franco-British powers.
On 16 April 1939, he submitted a formal proposition: a three-power military pact with the obvious goal of deterring Nazi aggression.
Stalin’s diplomatic proposal mirrored the agreement in place prior to the First World War, in which Britain, France and Russia were bound together in an alliance directed against the German and Austro-Hungarian empires.
Had Stalin’s approach been accepted, it can only have changed the course of history – as such a union would have ensured, right from the beginning in the event of a conflict, that Hitler faced a nightmare war on two fronts.
This final Soviet offer of alliance with the West was snubbed, however, with the British in particular treating Moscow with disregard. Strong anti-Bolshevik feelings were widespread amongst the conservatives in the British government, and with Chamberlain himself.
Remember when Russia and Hitler teamed up to split Europe?
Shocking how the impetus for the war in Ukraine is almost identical for Hitler needing to invade the Sudetenland.
Anyways, can we stay on topic about
RampartIsrael?I can’t believe Geneva is claiming it was “white genocide/colonialism” that is why Hitler is evil.
I mean I can believe they’re doing it, given the account is a propaganda front … but god damn that’s wild.
Unlike the Soviets and Kaliningrad. Wait…
They are attempting to do the same thing, to erase the national identity of the people living there and conquer the place.
Even the settlement thing matches, the Soviets used to move Russians into all the republics to erase national boundaries and make them all uniformly Russian.
Settler Colonialism means murdering the civilians and then stealing their land and house. Not trying to force your own culture upon civilians.
Examples are America, Australia, Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, Israel, etc.
murdering the civilians and then stealing their land and house
Yes, exactly like what Russia is doing to Ukraine, too.
Russia is trying to annex Ukraine. We’re not talking about off-cases but national policy.
Or do you believe that Russia wants to expell all Ukrainians from Ukraine?
Lmao oh boy
The quality of tankies has really gone down. This one started tried to make a really big deal about the difference between annexation and settler colonialism, as if that matters at all. I’m only disappointed that most replies fell into the obvious trap.
Feel free to check with different sources if you want, but yes they ARE trying to colonize Ukraine.
https://cepa.org/article/behind-the-lines-russias-struggle-to-colonize-ukraine/
https://www.newyorker.com/news/essay/the-war-in-ukraine-is-a-colonial-war
Moscow Plans to Colonize Occupied Ukraine With 5 Million People
I suggest looking up the difference between conquering and colonizing. Russia is trying to annex Ukraine into Russia, not make it a client state.
And then look up what settler colonialism is. Because if it was that, then those Ukrainians wouldn’t be in occupied territory anymore.
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What a stupid fucking hill to die on.
Hey, nobody gives a shit! They’re both bad and the comic is also about Russia
A very important distinction that is clearly not just splitting hairs.
Potato potato.
What’s the difference in the end?
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Still waiting for the “Defed yourself from .ml” feature. Every day It’s something to do with Gaza or “Loss” always popping up on my feed. Do we really need comics for this?
Instead of crying for mommy and daddy admin to defederate from the ‘.ml badthink’ and build your uncritical hug box for everyone else, you can always block the instance as a whole client side. That why we left Reddit, you are in control of your experience
Or just keep scrolling and stow the comment instead of demanding others change, but maybe I’m a weirdo idk
Or just keep scrolling and stow the comment instead of demanding others change
There’s daylight between
I want them to shadowban the badthink for me
And
Maybe curate your own whitelist instead?
But again, idk I’m the weirdo obviously. Plz mods, defed from all outsider thought to keep us ideologically pure 🙏
What’s hilarious to me is that OP has a deliberate “this is only about one situation” and then defends how the other obvious situation isn’t that.
From a .ml user.
Curious.
Now I’m no supporter of genocide by anyone, and definitely not a Zionist, but it’s strange how when talking about Israel (by this user) there is nothing else, in fact you’ll be argued down by them if you see this comic as talking about anything but what they think.
Anyways….
This comic is about the USA.
This comic is about Canada.
This comic is about Australia.
This comic is about basically every African nation, South Africa especially.
This comic is about Russia, this comic is about the Soviet Union.
This comic is about Israel.
This comic is about a number of current conflicts.
This comic is about a number of past conflicts.
This comic is about raw Kalkite being mined from Gorman.
I didn’t realize you were both sidesing the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Nor that Russia was doing settler colonialism. Very wise of you.
Nor that Russia was doing settler colonialism.
Ah. It’s just a good old annexation. That’s totally fine.
I’ll remember that when my stupid country makes an attempt to annex Canada… Which is not invading their home, because it’s not settler colonialism?
So if Putin slaughtered all Ukrainian civilians you’d not be any more upset?
To understand the terminology and why it’s important: On ‘Arab Colonialism’
…Okay.
First of, of course I would. What would make you think I wouldn’t? I’m upset with how many civilians are dying now. And I’m upset with genocides elsewhere.
Second. How does that stop this meme from applying to Russia/Ukraine?
Because third panel wants to live in their house not take over their country
Because third panel wants to live in their house not take over their country
Again. I will remember this when the US more seriously talks up ‘taking over’ Canada; but not living in their house. Not a crisis of imperialist aggression, by that argument, unless you wish to clarify?
Are you saying that no Russians have moved to Crimea?
Peak whataboutism
I am begging reddit debate lords to stop treating the wikipedia page on logical fallacies like a list of magic incantations.
Stalking me now?
What does Israel have to do with this? It’s obviously a Ukraine/Russia meme. Stop trying to make everything about your pet issue.
My dude I think you’re misunderstanding me and this post, read the comments and then come back and see if you can take my meaning.
The OP is making a point of saying this isn’t about Russia/Ukraine in any way and how can we even be so dumb as to think that.
Your criticism ought to be aimed at OP, Israel IS their pet project
Yep, that’s the joke
You’re going to have to explain what the joke is for those of us too dumb to get it.
Their initial reply to you is sarcastic. They were agreeing with you, not arguing with you
Yeah well in my defense I’m too dumb to get that
Looks like you fell victim to Poe’s law.
Don’t forget the sequel: “you just don’t understand the history of this
regionhouse, honestly you’re coming into this discussion way too late, the nuance of this conflict has just been going on so long it’s hard to tell who’s at fault.”
