Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.

However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.

Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?

If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!

  • Ulrich@feddit.org
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    2 days ago

    How does it have nothing to do with Google, if Google did it, even if it was by order of the US government?

    Because Google has zero control over it. You’re REALLY reaching here…

    • Cricket [he/him]@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      We seem to be having a communication problem. I was originally addressing this specific statement:

      It was open source so it could be run by Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. while Google collected all the data.

      Those OEMs could run Android and let Google collect all the data regardless of whether it were open-sourced or licensed, and the Huawei case demonstrated that “Android” is licensed. It’s only AOSP minus Google services that is open-sourced. I don’t understand what’s so controversial about what I’m saying.

      • Ulrich@feddit.org
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        2 days ago

        We are not having a communication problem. We have a failure to understand. If you want to challenge the entire definition of open source, that’s not something that I’m going to entertain. You can take that up with OSI. Every other open source project is susceptible to the same legal shitfuckery.

        regardless of whether it were open-sourced or licensed

        These are not the same. And it’s preposterous to suggest such a thing. It’s like saying licensing movies from Amazon is the same as owning them. The implications are completely different.

        and the Huawei case demonstrated that “Android” is licensed

        Again, only as much as every other open source project is “licensed”, as in it’s susceptible to legal regulation.

        • Cricket [he/him]@lemmy.zip
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          1 day ago

          It’s either failure to understand or you’re intentionally twisting my words. I’m not challenging the definition of open source and I’m not claiming open source and proprietary software is the same.

          Let me restate and clarify what I’m saying:

          • For giant corporate OEMs like you listed, all else being equal, it makes not much difference to them in their choice to use Android on their phones whether Android is open source or proprietary. The only significant difference between the two is that open source allows them to further customize and perhaps contribute back to the OS source, if they desire to do so. If Android were proprietary and had the same market and lack of fees (or even reasonable fees to allow them to still be profitable), they would still use it.
          • The complete Android system has a unique vulnerability to attacks like the one on Huawei (compared to another open source OS like Linux), because of its deep dependence on Google’s (proprietary) play services and mobile services. The Huawei case illustrated that GPS and GMS are proprietary, are licensed, the licenses can be pulled, and Android is pretty useless to a giant corporate OEM without those two proprietary components. That’s why I’m sometimes using “open source” in quotes, because Android being open source is only useful to an OEM as long as they agree to Google’s GPS/GMS licensing.

          I hope you understand my points now. If you still want to argue either of them, I think we’ve reached a dead end.

          • Ulrich@feddit.org
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            1 day ago

            I’m not challenging the definition of open source

            Yes you are. You are claiming that open source and “licensed” are the same thing, because the government can get involved and take away someone’s right to open source.

            The Huawei case illustrated that GPS and GMS are proprietary, are licensed, the licenses can be pulled

            GPS and GMS are not components of AOSP. They are proprietary Google apps.

            and Android is pretty useless to a giant corporate OEM without those two proprietary components

            1. It doesn’t matter if it’s useless or not, because it’s not part of Android

            2. Its obviously not useless because Huawei continued using using Android, minus GPS and GMS, as does Amazon.

            • Cricket [he/him]@lemmy.zip
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              23 hours ago

              Yes you are. You are claiming that open source and “licensed” are the same thing, because the government can get involved and take away someone’s right to open source.

              That’s not at all what I’m saying. Please point out where I said that open source and licensed (i.e., proprietary licensed) software are the same thing? First, I’m not saying anything about AOSP, which I recognize is fully open source and which I use myself. I’m talking about full Android, the trademarked, licensed product, which includes AOSP (open source) plus GPS and GMS (proprietary) components. We’re talking about Android phones here, before you go “but but but”.

              From the link above:

              “The “Android” name, the Android logo, the “Google Play” brand, and other Google trademarks, are property of Google LLC and not part of the assets available through the Android Open Source Project.”

              “Use of the “Google Play” name and the Google Play Store icon is allowed only in association with devices licensed to access Google Play. For a list of devices licensed to use Google Play, refer to Supported devices.”

              Second, a combination of open source and proprietary components is not fully open source, do you agree with that at least?

              It doesn’t matter if it’s useless or not, because it’s not part of Android

              It very much does matter in the case of Android because AOSP without the proprietary components is limited to a market niche. Show me one really popular phone or phone brand which does not use Google’s proprietary Play Store. Maybe there’s some edge case that doesn’t, I don’t know, but it would be the exception that proves the rule.

              Its obviously not useless because Huawei continued using using Android, minus GPS and GMS, as does Amazon.

              Both had to either develop their own app store or rely on a 3rd-party app store, I don’t know. But they’re definitely not using Google’s Play Store, and thus are limited to market niches like I mentioned above.

              • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                22 hours ago

                Please point out where I said that open source and licensed (i.e., proprietary licensed) software are the same thing?

                When you suggested that Android is licensed because the government restricted who could use it, that’s what you said. I don’t understand why this is confusing. Any other open source project is susceptible to the same fate, ergo they’re the same thing. I already explained this.

                I’m not saying anything about AOSP

                AOSP is Android. This seems to be where you’re getting confused.

                • Cricket [he/him]@lemmy.zip
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                  21 hours ago

                  When you suggested that Android is licensed because the government restricted who could use it, that’s what you said. I don’t understand why this is confusing.

                  That’s not what I said. What I said was that the fact that Google blocked Huawei’s ability to use Android’s Google Services on their devices at the government’s orders meant that the they had a mechanism that allowed them to do so. Namely, the proprietary license for the Google Services. Do you dispute this exact thing, not some twisted version of what I said? I don’t understand why this is confusing either.

                  Any other open source project is susceptible to the same fate, ergo they’re the same thing. I already explained this.

                  How so? Do you have any examples of an organization blocking someone from using a common open source license like GPL, MIT, or Apache License, with the possible exceptions of GPL license violations or export controls for things like cryptography, etc? The fact that Google didn’t block Huawei from using AOSP most likely means that it was easier for them to ban Huawei through their proprietary license to Google Services than through the Apache License for AOSP.

                  AOSP is Android. This seems to be where you’re getting confused.

                  This seems to be where you’re getting confused too. I’ve already explained multiple times that what I mean by “Android” is the full suite (AOSP + GPS + GMS) that an OEM would need for a mass-market phone. AOSP is not enough for that. No OEM in their right mind would try to market a mass-market phone with pure AOSP and no Google Services.